jimcoddington

Is SAA the only airline in the world that cancels their own flights, and for cancelling their own flights they issue vouchers instead of refunds? I have never heard of such a thing.

If I cancelled my SAA flight, no problem, I understand I would be issued vouchers towards a future flight, but when the airline cancels the flight, COVID-19 or not, customers/passenger should be refunded.

Has this always been SAA's policy, or did it get changed/updated once COVID-19 hit?

Often1

What is the exact routing of your ticket?

Your profile shows that you live in the US. If your ticket originates, terminates or is through the US, US law entitles you to a refund if your flight is cancelled or significantly changed by the carrier.

Thus, need details and you haven't provided enough.

jimcoddington

My bad, my SAA flights were LVI-JNB & JNB-TNR, all within Africa.

Often1

Take a look at your contract with SA. I see Rule 11.2 as an agreement to issue a refund. Do you read it differently?

With that language, if SA refused or dawdled in making a refund, I would simply initiate a chargeback, especially presuming a US-based card issuer (bank).

jimcoddington

Often1, thank you so much for spending the time to help educate me on this topic.

To give you some more details, I have contacted various South African Airways (SAA) customer service departments, and they ALL reply with the exact same auto-reply:

"Thank you for contacting South African Airways Customer Service.

The protection of our employees from contracting the COVID 19 virus is at the core of our priorities. We are therefore compelled to adopt a new normal in ensuring that we are still of service to you. SAA has had to significantly downscale its operations - we are currently operating a one customer touchpoint operation via an email channel. The reduction in our operation has posed some limitations to the known recovery processes.

We would like to bring to your attention that during Level 3 of lockdown, SAA will not be processing any payment of refunds however we have put together a fantastic Flexi ticket usage policy which can be found on http://www.flysaa.com.

Flight reservation functionality is restored for Domestic SAA/Mango Codeshare flights only on https://www.flysaa.com/plan-book or via the [email protected] email channel.

As you can see SAA is very clear: "We would like to bring to your attention that during Level 3 of lockdown, SAA will not be processing any payment of refunds however we have put together a fantastic Flexi ticket usage policy which can be found on http://www.flysaa.com." That is complete BS!

Another challenge I have is that I used Chase Ultimate Rewards points from my Chase Sapphire Reserve credit card to make the SAA reservation.

So after going back and forth with Chase about these SAA cancelled flights, Chase Travel Services sent me the following e-mail: "We reviewed your request and advocated on your behalf with the South African Airways. Although your booking was not refundable, we were able to secure a future travel credit that you can use to rebook your travel at a later date. This way you do not lose the value of the fare you have already paid." Again, complete BS, especially since SAA cancelled the flights.

Thank you for pointing out rule 11.2 from SOUTH AFRICAN AIRWAYS GENERAL CONDITIONS OF CARRIAGE dated May 2018: https://www.flysaa.com/documents/518...c-8b2a9a0de9b4
INVOLUNTARY REFUNDS
11.2.1. If we cancel a flight, fail to operate a flight reasonably according to
schedule, fail to stop at your destination or stopover, or cause you to
miss a connecting flight on which you hold a reservation, the amount of
the refund shall be:
11.2.1.a. if no portion of the ticket has been used, an amount equal to
the fare paid;
11.2.1.b. if a portion of the ticket has been used, the refund will be not
less than the difference between the fare paid and the
applicable fare for travel between the points for which the
ticket has been used.
11.2.2. Upon acceptance of a refund by the passenger on the purchase of a
ticket under these circumstances, we shall be released from any further

I agree, I should be eligible for a refund, or in my case a re-deposit of my Chase UR points back into my account.

Any advice on how I should proceed?

Thank you again for your help and time, I really do appreciate it.

gcuk

So there are a couple of issues here:
Firstly it�s effectively a travel agent booking so SAA won�t deal with the OP directly and secondly, and perhaps most importantly, SAA is grounded, has returned about 75% of its fleet to lessors and all airport locations and call centres are closed.

They are allegedly closed until 31August, but that�s only because they were originally closed until 31 July and didn�t reopen then.

OP needs to be dealing with Chase. Good luck.

Smiley90

I had the same issue and my (Canadian) American Express even refused to even initiate a chargeback. SAA just plainly refuses to give them and the credit card issuers have given up on it

Often1

If you had paid with a credit card, a chargeback would be easy.

I suspect that your only easy approach here is to -- again, everything in writing -- to Chase, noting that the offer does not fulfill the terms of the contract. Make certain that you provide the specific outtake and note that the only way to refund is to get your points back.

If that fails, you are stuck with a small claims action against Chase and SA. Many states only permit these for specific dollar amounts and you would thus have to have a documented and supportable means of valuing those points.

lifeonthego_k

Air India was forced to cancel all it's international flights from April onwards because India closed it's air space. They have refused to offer refunds for all related canceled flights and the matter has been taken up by the Supreme Court.

pstation

SAA simply doesn't have the money to offer refunds now so a chargeback would be your best bet if the timeline hasn't expired. as part of the business rescue process they're hoping to find an investor that can assume that debt.

Often1

Unfortunately, OP paid with points, not cash and therefore, all a chargeback will get him is any portion of the ticket, such as taxes, paid with cash.

I would nonetheless initiate a chargeback with your card issuer for any cash portion of the ticket, providing a copy of the relevant contract provision (above) as well as the fact that SA has refused to honor its contract.

I would then write to Chase, noting that SA has a contractual obligation to refund and that Chase, as its business partner, has an obligation to force the issue. Doubt this gets you far, but it is the risk of not paying with a card.

dawson444

I had several flights with SAA within the country (SA) booked during the COVID period. I performed chargebacks for all of them through AMEX and received noticed today that AMEX is reversing one of the chargebacks (I'm wondering if the others will be coming soon) since they received notice from SAA that they issued a flight credit for the flight. Should be fun to try and fight this again.

Often1

Did you provide Amex with copies of the contract provision (see #4 above), as well as the notice of cancellation and your specific request for a refund as well as a note that you never asked for nor accepted a credit? If not, I would do that now.

For the benefit of others, it is important to document chargebacks at the time they are first made. This leaves the merchant (SA in this case) unable to effectively make false statements and certainly false statements which its merchant acquirer will back it on.

jsnydcsa

If you're working with a travel agent or tour company, this recent article may have some "tips" and "guidance" for you and your agent/company to potentially (emphasis thereon) working to get a refund.

https://www.tourismupdate.co.za/arti...here-are-risks

SAA refund loopholes � there are risks
Today 15:45 - by Sarah Robertson

Increasing frustration that SAA is still not processing refunds it owes its clients (around R3bn (�168m) of unflown tickets), is motivating some agents to look for alternative ways to get their clients� money back from the airline. But outbound industry association, Asata, warns that there is a high risk involved in these �loopholes�.
Credit card chargebacks
In a case study published by Tourism Update, on February 12, inbound tour operator � Rhino Africa � went on record about its success in concluding a series of multimillion-rand chargebacks against SAA.
�The right thing for the government and SAA to have done, both at the time and now, was to refund all tickets they had received payment for, especially where they knew they were unable to deliver the service then or in the future,� said Rhino Africa CEO and Founder, David Ryan.
When investigating options to recover SAA funds purchased on the operator�s lodge card, Ryan uncovered that the bank mandate on chargebacks states that cardholders have 540 days from the date the tickets were issued to file a chargeback. This was used as the basis of Rhino Africa's chargeback submission, together with extracts from the Consumer Protection Act, which state that where services have not been rendered, and will not be rendered in the future, the client is due a refund.
Commenting on the case study, CEO of Asata, Otto de Vries, said while he agreed that agents had legal grounds to enact chargebacks against SAA, the airline had specifically notified the trade that there would be penalties issued against them should they use the chargeback option.
De Vries was referring to an April 2020 SAA travel agent advisory notice stating that local agents would not receive refunds on any SAA tickets. In the advisory, SAA added that ADMs would be issued if chargebacks were initiated.
�Please refrain from initiating chargebacks with the banks and advise your clients as well. A chargeback is where you or the client requests the money back from the bank. If a chargeback is raised, a subsequent ADM will be issued to your agency. This is time-consuming and unnecessary, and increases our SAA chargeback score rating at our respective banks,� said SAA in the advisory.
�As such, it is naive to think that, in the context of the agency programme, there is no risk involved in initiating chargebacks against SAA, especially when large batches of ADMs could cause an agency to default and put its Iata licence at risk. There is also no certainty that all credit card companies will respond in the same way to a rush of chargebacks submitted by the trade for SAA tickets at this point in time,� said De Vries.
BRPs silent on unflown ticket refunds
�While we do not encourage agents to initiate chargebacks in this manner, we are fully aware of the frustration that the industry is feeling that SAA is still not refunding tickets. The business rescue plan, which was approved in mid-2020, made provision for unflown ticket liability to be refunded. Half a year has passed and the Business Rescue Practitioners (BRPs) have not communicated at all about when and how this money will be paid back to creditors,� said De Vries.
�We would like to remind both the BRPs and the government, that prior to SAA going into business rescue, trade sales accounted for around 80% of SAA�s ticket sales. Failing to refund this sector for services that SAA is unable to render is causing irreversible damage to SAA�s relationship with the trade and it is essential that these commitments are honoured by the airline for any goodwill to be salvaged,� he added.
Iata procedure bears fruit
Meanwhile, Tourism Update�s sister publication, Travel News, has received reports that agents in Europe are receiving refunds for SAA tickets.
Director of Cape Town-based German Overseas Travel, Michaela Vollmer, told Travel News that one of her Munich-based agent partners had notified her that she had received a number of SAA refunds in the last few months through Iata�s Post Billing Dispute procedure.
However, this process also appears to be fraught with risk, as the agent was required to sign a contract stating that she was aware that she could receive an ADM from SAA for the refunded amounts up to nine months later. The small print on the agent�s credit memo, which Vollmer translated from German, read as follows:
�In the absence of co-operation with the airline, the amount will be reimbursed using the so-called Post Billing Dispute Procedure at reservation. In this arbitration procedure, the money is not paid out by the airline itself, as usual, but by Iata on behalf of the company, who takes on the further clarification with the airlines. The airline can claim this amount back at any time. In this case we reserve the right to forward the claim of the airline to you.�
According to Vollmer, the Post Billing Dispute procedure is not available to South African agents as she understands that SAA disabled the refund process locally for both GDS and BSPlink refunds.
De Vries concurred, saying that to the best of his knowledge an airline needed to have activated these refund facilities in order to activate Post Billing Dispute claims, which was not the case for BSPZA agents.
Tourism Update contacted Iata and SAA�s BRPs for more information on these topics but had not received a response from either party at time of publication.

jsnydcsa

Cross post to
SAA's financial woes
noting it appears SAA CS may be replying to at least one TA.