First Class Seats
Jan 12, 2021, 4:13 am
#31
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: A3 Gold, AA Platinum, Marriott & Discovery Platinum, IGH Diamond
Posts: 889
Regards,
El Puerco Volante
Jan 12, 2021, 4:21 am
#32
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: A3 Gold, AA Platinum, Marriott & Discovery Platinum, IGH Diamond
Posts: 889
Not sure where in the world you are flying and I do not care how much attention you pay to the current pandemic but much of Asia and Oceania is in lock down. Any flights are limited and airlines like SQ and CX continue to hemorrhage money with the majority of their fleet in mothballs. SQ have limited passenger flights (but more for cargo) and, as an Australian, for instance, I cannot leave the country, even if I wanted to without an exemption. SQ flights are reduced to 7 or so a day SIN-AUS down from about 140 a week in 2019. Most of those have only 15% pax load due to restrictions transiting in SIN and quarantine on arrival in AUS. So SQ will operate B787 or A350 series on these routes - and almost over their entire network so there are zero F seats available.
They are even operating A359 on their two remaining LHR flights a day so, again no F to sell. I agree that the earliest we might see some B777 (with 4 F seats) returning is Winter 2021 but any redemption availability will be a year or more away and then only to their premium SQ customers. I would stop looking for *A redemptions in an F cabin for more than a year, if ever. All their 380 fleet is grounded.
Not ideal, I'd just like to get on a plane again. But not to Europe or the US, thank you.
They are even operating A359 on their two remaining LHR flights a day so, again no F to sell. I agree that the earliest we might see some B777 (with 4 F seats) returning is Winter 2021 but any redemption availability will be a year or more away and then only to their premium SQ customers. I would stop looking for *A redemptions in an F cabin for more than a year, if ever. All their 380 fleet is grounded.
Not ideal, I'd just like to get on a plane again. But not to Europe or the US, thank you.
It's about product consistency.
I understand that some points redeemers may have different tolerance level as long as there is some kind of a seat available, but when I pay for F - I expect an airline to offer F. If LX and EK can manage to keep offering F in this period - then any serious airline can. SQ is not behaving like a serious airline. I'm fine with SQ deciding to look for their interest instead of their passengers interest. It's a business decision and they will pay the price.
Regards,
El Puerco Volante
Jan 12, 2021, 4:42 am
#33
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Exec Club, SIA KrisFlyer, Qantas FF, Emirates Skywards
Posts: 1,850
SQ has decided to do that now because if the A380s do return to the skies, SQ needs updated cabins to be competitive. SQ has positioned itself as a premium brand with a first class product that is one of the very best in the sky, if not the best. If pre-covid demand returns in the next 18-24 months, SQ needs to maintain its position by having an amazing first class product. The issue is however, what happens is completely out of their control.
When SQ made the call to install new F and J cabins, it was mid-November. It has only been two months since that point and the virus has literally gone crazy. Look at the US/Europe and the UK. The virus is completely out of control and getting worse at an unimaginable pace.
Singapore and HK, two of the nations globally who have done extremely well can't even get a travel bubble going. In fact, when SQ made this decision, the travel bubble was in place and set to begin November 22. And then it was scrapped a day or two before and the situation was so bad it was pushed to beyond 2020, and here we are now - no bubble in sight. Once again, not SQ's fault - but completely out of their control.
I hope I'm wrong about the A380's, but reality at the moment says something else.
Jan 12, 2021, 4:49 am
#34
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Exec Club, SIA KrisFlyer, Qantas FF, Emirates Skywards
Posts: 1,850
It's not about lockdowns. Everyone's ability to fly is different.
It's about product consistency.
I understand that some points redeemers may have different tolerance level as long as there is some kind of a seat available, but when I pay for F - I expect an airline to offer F. If LX and EK can manage to keep offering F in this period - then any serious airline can. SQ is not behaving like a serious airline. I'm fine with SQ deciding to look for their interest instead of their passengers interest. It's a business decision and they will pay the price.
Regards,
El Puerco Volante
It's about product consistency.
I understand that some points redeemers may have different tolerance level as long as there is some kind of a seat available, but when I pay for F - I expect an airline to offer F. If LX and EK can manage to keep offering F in this period - then any serious airline can. SQ is not behaving like a serious airline. I'm fine with SQ deciding to look for their interest instead of their passengers interest. It's a business decision and they will pay the price.
Regards,
El Puerco Volante
SQ knows it is hard to give a full F product now, and that's why they're not offering it. It is a smart thing to do.
Every airline has different constraints - SQ can only do so much.
Jan 12, 2021, 11:42 pm
#35
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Singapore
Programs: QF LTG, SQ EGTP, Bonvoy LTG
Posts: 4,847
I understand that some points redeemers may have different tolerance level as long as there is some kind of a seat available, but when I pay for F - I expect an airline to offer F. If LX and EK can manage to keep offering F in this period - then any serious airline can. SQ is not behaving like a serious airline. I'm fine with SQ deciding to look for their interest instead of their passengers interest. It's a business decision and they will pay the price.
SQ's route network is incredibly bound by travel restrictions, they are primarily a conduit for transport within SE Asia, between East Asia/SE Asia and Europe/India/North America, between Australia/NZ and Asia/Europe and between India and North America. Heavy restrictions currently apply (and are likely to continue) for travel into at least one end of most city pairs SQ conceivably connect between, so their fleet approach (and lack of F product) makes a lot of sense.
Also regarding EK and LX - EK has F on most of its fleet, and LX on all of its widebody fleet, they don't have a more fuel efficient range of 350's and 789's to fly around in lieu of their A380s/777s (EK) or A340s/777s (LX), SQ does.
Jan 13, 2021, 6:59 am
#36
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,279
Even if SQ fly their 777 with F, ppl will still complain as they want to experience the A380 suites. And rather flying a few 777 which n have to deploy more crew just to service the F cabin, SQ rather not to offer it for the time being. They are keeping the crews to a minimum as well
Jan 16, 2021, 12:32 am
#37
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ZRH
Programs: QR Gold / M&M FTL / Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 655
SQ have chosen to fly around their most fuel efficient planes due to suffering very low loadings, and in doing have probably also assessed the situation regarding F, and may well be willing to sacrifice some custom to their competitors to minimise how much money they are hemorrhaging.
SQ's route network is incredibly bound by travel restrictions, they are primarily a conduit for transport within SE Asia, between East Asia/SE Asia and Europe/India/North America, between Australia/NZ and Asia/Europe and between India and North America. Heavy restrictions currently apply (and are likely to continue) for travel into at least one end of most city pairs SQ conceivably connect between, so their fleet approach (and lack of F product) makes a lot of sense.
Also regarding EK and LX - EK has F on most of its fleet, and LX on all of its widebody fleet, they don't have a more fuel efficient range of 350's and 789's to fly around in lieu of their A380s/777s (EK) or A340s/777s (LX), SQ does.
SQ's route network is incredibly bound by travel restrictions, they are primarily a conduit for transport within SE Asia, between East Asia/SE Asia and Europe/India/North America, between Australia/NZ and Asia/Europe and between India and North America. Heavy restrictions currently apply (and are likely to continue) for travel into at least one end of most city pairs SQ conceivably connect between, so their fleet approach (and lack of F product) makes a lot of sense.
Also regarding EK and LX - EK has F on most of its fleet, and LX on all of its widebody fleet, they don't have a more fuel efficient range of 350's and 789's to fly around in lieu of their A380s/777s (EK) or A340s/777s (LX), SQ does.
no miracle if the SQ load are only 15% with all these complicated choices.
Then not everybody live in a hole (or jailed in their island), my Asian friends or family fly with Turkish, Qatar or LX/LH.... (between EU - Asia - Middle East)...
Jan 16, 2021, 6:18 am
#38
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Singapore
Programs: QF LTG, SQ EGTP, Bonvoy LTG
Posts: 4,847
Not kept up to date on the latest travel restrictions but which (east or south east) Asian countries allow free movement between EU and the country? Genuine question. Last time I looked, a few months ago, very few.
Jan 16, 2021, 6:24 pm
#39
Join Date: Mar 2008
Programs: SQ TPP
Posts: 125
you forget also the ridiculous transit restrictions between some cities and I don't talk about the Changi transit experience actually.
no miracle if the SQ load are only 15% with all these complicated choices.
Then not everybody live in a hole (or jailed in their island), my Asian friends or family fly with Turkish, Qatar or LX/LH.... (between EU - Asia - Middle East)...
no miracle if the SQ load are only 15% with all these complicated choices.
Then not everybody live in a hole (or jailed in their island), my Asian friends or family fly with Turkish, Qatar or LX/LH.... (between EU - Asia - Middle East)...
Please remind us of the Asian countries allowing unrestricted travel with Europe and NA at the moment. I will really look forward to enjoying the SQ F experience again asap but happy to wait until it is safe to do so.
Jan 17, 2021, 1:47 am
#40
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ZRH
Programs: QR Gold / M&M FTL / Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 655
You cannot blame SQ for the Changi transit restrictions, it is a Government mandate, as are all the international restrictions in Asia and Oceania. If you look at the polls in the region where the virus is under control, you may see that the majority of the population enjoy living without many limits on their daily activities and approve restricting the number of visitors from Europe and NA importing the virus into their country. Far from feeling 'jailed', the NZ population, for instance, re-elected their government with the largest majority ever at the height of the pandemic last year.
Please remind us of the Asian countries allowing unrestricted travel with Europe and NA at the moment. I will really look forward to enjoying the SQ F experience again asap but happy to wait until it is safe to do so.
Please remind us of the Asian countries allowing unrestricted travel with Europe and NA at the moment. I will really look forward to enjoying the SQ F experience again asap but happy to wait until it is safe to do so.
You forget the European living in Asia, or Asian with Family in Europe, or couple living in different country, they can fly enter Europe and going back to Asia, we meet, we manage, we don't catch Covid and we have a life....
Sardinia (Italy), Zanzibar (Tanzania) and Zermatt (Switzerland) my destinations in the last 4 months with some relatives living in Asia.
My other friends travel between Dubai-Canada, other to Maldives, nobody that I know used SQ recently.
I have also a ticket with 2 legs SQ F ticketed by LH early 2020, as these no resume in sight with SQ F, I will probably cancel and get money back.
And if you want to wait to be "100% safe" as you said, you will need to wait a very long time... until the world will be totally vaccinated (it will take many years for some country) and the virus eradicated (if no major mutation happen), not sure it's really realistic.
Concerning the virus under control, you can see recently Japan, Korea, Thailand, Hong Kong in a messy situation... not sure It will not happen again elsewhere.
Jan 17, 2021, 9:46 pm
#41
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: MUC/RJK
Programs: SQ G, LH FTL, UA S, Marriott Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,442
GalaxyChris, you obviously have a problem with SQ, because you keep ignoring all the honest callouts to list Asian countries with free movement with EU - there are none, AFAIK. As an EU citizen living in Asia, right now I still have to quarantine on my way back - and in some European countries on the way in, too. Somehow, when people ask you for actual facts, you cloud it with anecdotes and SQ rants.
Jan 20, 2021, 12:00 am
#42
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ZRH
Programs: QR Gold / M&M FTL / Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 655
GalaxyChris, you obviously have a problem with SQ, because you keep ignoring all the honest callouts to list Asian countries with free movement with EU - there are none, AFAIK. As an EU citizen living in Asia, right now I still have to quarantine on my way back - and in some European countries on the way in, too. Somehow, when people ask you for actual facts, you cloud it with anecdotes and SQ rants.
I was talking about relatives before and they did not do any quarantine between Indonesia Switzerland during their trip (only PCR way back to CGK).
Friends from Thailand do one when return only. So obviously it depend of the local rules at the time of the trip.
Jan 22, 2021, 2:29 am
#43
Join Date: Oct 2016
Programs: Krisflyer
Posts: 588
Pity those of us stuck in Australia where the government - pleased with its success at keeping infections and deaths at low levels - is now too paranoid to even consider allowing travel for vaccinated individuals, because the vaccine hasn't been proven to prevent transmission without infection (something that is almost impossible to prove!). We are prisoners in a country with, unfortunately, massive public support for playing it ultra-safe, and no prospect of any class of international travel in the next few months.
Jan 22, 2021, 11:59 am
#44
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HPN
Programs: not anymore! I'm FREE!
Posts: 3,459
Pity those of us stuck in Australia where the government - pleased with its success at keeping infections and deaths at low levels - is now too paranoid to even consider allowing travel for vaccinated individuals, because the vaccine hasn't been proven to prevent transmission without infection (something that is almost impossible to prove!). We are prisoners in a country with, unfortunately, massive public support for playing it ultra-safe, and no prospect of any class of international travel in the next few months.
On the other hand - it would be strange indeed if vaccinated individuals can transmit the disease. I don't think any other vaccine with a 95% protection rate works this way. I think you're right that it's really hard to get data about transmission from vaccinated individuals. Those who test positive rarely have any idea where they got infected. Maybe the Israeli data will shed some light now that a third or so of the population has been vaccinated. If the rate of transmission to non-vaccinated individuals goes down now it would suggest that vaccinated-but-infected individuals don't transmit as effectively as non-vaccinated infected individuals. But I doubt that will convince Australia to open the border to vaccinated people.
Jan 23, 2021, 11:04 am
#45
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: ATL
Programs: DL DM | Bonvoy Ti | Amex Plat, Rose Gold, SkyMiles Reserve | Bonvoy Boundless | CSP
Posts: 7
I just gathered an unfortunate, yet somewhat expected, data point. I am trying to rebook a suites booking from mid 2021 to late 2021 and found some Saver availability. I called, had an agent put it on hold, then received a call back that they cannot ticket F tickets (ticketing system gives a hard error) through the end of 2021 due to the current situation. Though they can book J tickets.