rufflesinc

haha. what a funny guy, i see why they made him CEO.

note to mods: i don't think this belongs in the specialized discussion forum, as this is about people who apparently don't have a disability

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/tra...irs-rcna153830

SPN Lifer

For the elderly, it is much, much easier to walk off a plane at one's own pace, than to get on -- with so much standing around (including TSA & boarding areas) that people are incapable of.

These are not "miracle" cures, but simply a reflection of the different exertion levels in departing versus arriving.

He seems motivated to save money by not letting our elderly travel at all.

EXP100

The entire wheelchair thing is out of control. Don't think so? Look at the number of empty wheelchairs that come back when a flight is deplaning. Somehow mid flight people get the miracle of mobility. The easiest way would be board wheelchairs last. The most fair way would be a doctor's letter (and yes some people will fake that because that's where society has devolved to) and that way the true disabled/elderly wouldn't be disadvantaged by the ilk of society.

SPN Lifer

Did you read the entirety of my post right above yours?

What about the different exertion levels in departing versus arriving is so hard to understand?

Unlike arrival, the cost of being too fatigued and slow on departure or connection can be a missed flight!

LarryJ

Right, the need for assistance is not a binary all or nothing. At first, a person only needs help during the most physically demanding tasks. Later, as they age or their disability worsens, they'll need it for everything.

wrp96

For the make wheelchairs board last crew, it doesn't work for several reasons:

1) if the person needs the aisle chair, then as the person using the aisle chair you deserve to not have to suffer the indignity of having a plane load watch you. For the persons pushing the aisle chair, having the plane already boarded makes it harder with the already limited space now filled with peoples elbows, feet etc

2) even if you aren't using the aisle chair, again the more people are on the plane the harder it is to maneuver down the aisle - making the progress even slower - sure let's slow down boarding even more.

3) many disabled will be traveling with medical devices of some kind, making them board last means there may not be any overhead space left to store those required medical devices

Don't punish those that need assistance because some people are selfish.

As someone who does use the service, I do wish that more people understood it's not a way to jump to the front of the line. In fact, it adds extra time to almost every step of my airport experience. And it is frustrating not being in control of when and where I go somewhere. Last Thursday morning for example, I arrived at check in at 4:30am for a 6:30am flight. No bags to check. Just needed wheelchair assistance to the gate. It took over 1.5 hours for assistance to come - I was the very last person to board the plane and at that point they were force checking all carry ons. While I was waiting a few other people came waiting needing assistance, but they gave up waiting out of fear of missing their flights - not because they no longer needed assistance, but they could limp along and put up with the pain. Not a miracle cure, just a need to make their flight.

Adelphos

My understanding is that wheelchair assistance, and assistance for the motorized cart things, are required for the disabled according to the ADA. I know there is a legal threshold for disability for things like parking. Is there a legal threshold that establishes at a passenger is entitled to this kind of airline assistance? Are elderly people who may have trouble with exertion "disabled" by this definition?

As with the debate around service animals, what is really need is clear definitions and requirements established in actual legislation instead of these grey areas

SPN Lifer

More government regulation is not the solution to all the problems of this world. With the aging demographics of the United States, it is only natural that more people will need help.

This is not a "problem" that needs "solving" in a society and on an airline that values all people, including the elderly.

Good leads the way!

Adelphos

From a practical standpoint - when passengers need wheelchairs, the government apparently charges the airlines $35 (if I am understanding the Frontier CEO correctly) based on legal requirements under the ADA. So government regulation (justified or not) is the discussion here. As the population ages, if more people require wheelchair assistance, these costs will become more meaningful. This is really a question of who should bear the cost - customers (either directly for a fee or through higher ticket prices), the government, the airline (which can be hard in a low margin business), etc. Another option may be to allow for family members, caregivers, etc to get secure access to terminals and gates and to assist the elderly to the gate.

SPN Lifer

Quite so. Ultimately, customers pay for everything. But this isn't that different from other costs that are spread across the entire passenger base, such as meals that some do not eat, or free checked baggage (for elites) not used by everyone.

Your idea for family member assistance is a good one (at least for non-stops), but seems unlikely in today's security environment. Maybe that will be rethought as the demographics change. That might be a better approach by the Frontier CEO.

StevenSeagalFan

There are usually 2 different "special services" codes for a wheelchair and aisle chair customer. Perhaps have the aisle chair coded customers still board first but I have no qualms about boarding the wheelchair customers last.

LarryJ

The ADA does not apply to air transportation. That falls under the Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) which is administered by the US DOT.

https://www.transportation.gov/airco...s-disabilities

Again, not the ADA. Under the ACAA, the responsibility for determining if assistance is needed is placed solely on the passenger. The airline is not permitted to deny the request or require documentation of the disability.

The ACAA provisions can be changed only by the US DOT, the legislative branch, or Congress. Direct those comments to them.

I don't think that would work well.

That would require an earlier cutoff for boarding passengers so that the wheelchair passengers, whose boarding is often time consuming, can be accomplished without other passengers being in the way. It creates a problem with the ramp personnel having to process and stow passenger mobility devices at the last minute including the proper processing and paperwork associated with wheelchair batteries. Lastly, passengers with disabilities are more likely to be traveling with other medical assistance devices which must be allowed in the cabin. Room would have to be made for those devices, even after all in-cabin storage locations were filled.

All together, these issues would lead to more delayed flights. It would also be problematic if mobility-impaired passengers were given the added burden of having to reclaim checked carry-ons further delaying the wheelchair personnel who are needed to assist other passengers. All of this is mitigated by boarding (almost) all of the wheelchair passengers early in the boarding process.

StevenSeagalFan

We oftentimes transfer customers from their own mobility device to an airport wheelchair well before boarding so that even if they board last their chair is down on the ramp and loaded with no problem anyway.

klew97

My elderly mom walks very slowly and needs to rest if a long distance, recently traveled alone with a connection after a delayed flight and would have missed it if she had to walk on her own. She had wheelchair help to get to the gate on time to make the flight. She didn't use a wheelchair at her destination since someone was picking her up and could walk at her own pace, no time crunch to get somewhere by a deadline.

Heyden

I wouldn't say it's out of control but it is definitely abused by some people. The criteria for wheelchair service on an airline should be the same as that for a disabled parking spot. It should not be a guaranteed service available for the asking.