Thank you again mia for generously sharing your vast knowledge. With respect, and consideration that the extensive discussion is buried in an old closed 4000 post thread, and that AFs have skyrocketed and that this is a game-changer for some people, I’ve taken the liberty of creating this new thread.

As implied above, I recently called to decrease the CL on my Sapphire Reserve card. Opened 1/3/25, SUB received on 1st statement 1/24/25, called to change statement date to 2nd, AF billed on 2/2/25 statement, CL $12k past few months. Rare use of card, recent changes to card benefits was nail in coffin* for me to close the account at 1 year anniversary.

Called Chase couple of weeks ago, small balance ($150) on card, asked about lowest possible CL, told $1000, I could only lower to $1500 due to current balance, done. Few days later saw “MEMBERSHIP FEE CREDIT Fees & adjustments −$550.00”, balance (credit) -$400.00. Called yesterday, asked to transfer credit balance to another Chase personal card, no joy. Requested refund to Chase bank account, told I would receive an email with instructions.

Email received 1 day later (today) with link to Chase refund page, I had to enter a bank account name/routing #/account # (not necessarily Chase), expecting deposit to Chase checking account within 1-2 days, I’ll post again if that timeframe is inaccurate. Plan to close account upon next AF billed on 2/2/26.

Thus far, no clawback of UA Club card SUB and no apparent adverse repercussions of lowering UA Club card CL (& AF refund) 4 months ago.

Bottom line: $1250 in AFs for 2 cards refunded, no SUBs clawed back, no apparent adverse actions by Chase, happy camper. I see this as a viable card management strategy going forward. Doesn’t seem to be as pertinent for AmEx as many AmEx high AF cards are Charge cards (without CL) not Credit cards.

(* AI Overview: “A nail in the coffin" refers to an event, action, or habit that contributes to the inevitable failure, ruin, or end of someone or something. It signifies a step towards destruction, with the "final nail" representing the decisive action that makes the failure complete and irreversible.)

Do this work on business cards (the CSR for Business specifically)?

Not my area of expertise and I have no experience in that regard, but I believe the answer is (unfortunately) “no”. Many of the referenced protections are CONSUMER (personal) protections, by or from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, business protections may be a “horse of a different color”*.

Some quotes I found while researching: “While this rule specifically covers certain fee structures to protect consumers from excessive initial costs, business credit card penalty fees may not always have the same strict caps as consumer cards.”

“Context for Business Cards: While many protections in the CARD Act specifically protect consumers, similar regulations for fees on business cards may not apply in the same manner, as they are often treated differently than individual consumer accounts. However, many issuers maintain similar fee structures to comply with general fair lending standards.”

(* "A horse of a different color" is an idiom meaning a situation, topic, or issue is entirely different, separate, or unrelated to the one previously discussed. It signifies a significant change in perspective, context, or a completely new matter.”

The "Horse of a Different Color" in The Wizard of Oz is a memorable carriage horse in the Emerald City that changes from white to purple, red, and yellow, an effect created by tinting white horses with harmless, sweet-tasting Jell-O powder (lemon, cherry, grape) to showcase the vibrant Technicolor film technology of the 1930s; the horses would lick the gelatin off, requiring quick filming of the iconic scene, notes The Oz Museum and Forest View Farms.)

General Updates: Still no clawback of SUB for UA Club card or CSR card. All benefits (UA club & CSR lounge access, various coupon book credits) for both cards continue to be received.

CSR Datapoint review/continuation:
1/2/25: application/instant approval $50k
1/10/25: estimated tax payment to meet SUB minimum spend requirement
1/16/25: 1st statement including SUB
1/20/25: change closing date online to 2nd of month
2/1/25: Annual Membership Fee $550.00 posting date on 2/2/25 statement
(July & Aug 2025: several CL changes/reallocations, ↑to $102k, ↓$12k, ↓$8k, unrelated reasons)
12/11/25: call to decrease CL to $1.5k
12/14/25: Membership Fee Credit −$550.00 posted backdated to 12/3/25 (result $450 credit balance)
12/16/25: called to request credit balance transfer to another Chase personal CC account, unable
12/24/25: Credit Balance Refund $450.00, ACH to Chase checking account, dated 12/18/25 on CC activity
2/4/26: 2/2/26 statement reviewed, NO Annual Membership Fee charge (in contrast to expectation)

Discussion: For both UA Club Card and CSR it seems that one can receive & keep SUB and also take advantage of ALL card benefits (club and lounge access, various coupon book credits) WITHOUT paying the high AFs, definitely 1st year, possibly beyond 1st year.

Perhaps, contrary to the Federal regulation link above and this CFPB link, caps on high-fee cards DO NOT only apply to initial credit limit and the first year? Perhaps Chase offers a more liberal interpretation of the rule and extends that cap beyond the first year, similar to how Chase extended my SCRA* benefits for 2-3 years after my Navy Reserve Afghanistan mobilization (to active duty)? Maybe Chase delays charging 2nd (and subsequent year’s) AF when an AF has been previously credited? Maybe a simple oversight by Chase?

Footnote

So far, so good (other than having a conversation with myself on this thread ). No AF’s paid (or paid then refunded) on 15 month old Sapphire Reserve, no clawback of SUB, several visits to Sapphire Clubs. AF on 11 month old UA Club card was refunded, no clawback of SUB, many UA Club visits past 3-4 months, during IRROPS several UA Club agents rebooked me when app rebooking were near impossible and resulted in terrible itineraries. Even got a nice Chase bonus on my UA Club card for the past 3 months.

Reminder: It’s reasonable that if CL is lowered to below 4x AF, the applicable card might not see much use, that’s certainly true for me. I have other cards that give me similar or better rewards for ongoing spend than my UA Club and Sapphire Reserve cards both of which which I opened mainly for the SUBs and secondarily for ongoing club/lounge access. I wouldn’t keep either card open if I had to pay an AF.

Lowering the CL to below 400% of AF resulted in these 2 cards having CLs far less than any of my other personal cards (for which I have little concern for usage %). Years ago I used to make multiple monthly payments to keep usage % down, recently not so much.

However, due to the Chase bonus for the past 3 months, spend on my UA Club card was significant, way more than once monthly rideshare charge (for monthly credit) that was my norm between the SUB and recent bonus. I almost forgot that being a personal card it would be hazardous to my credit scores to have Chase report 60% or 75% or 86% usage, had to remind myself to make a payment (or 2 or 3) prior to statement closing date.

Some of us are reading your every word carefully, and are very grateful for what you share.

The second clause I have emphasized should be 400%.

/s/ SPN Lifer

Father of FT "notional business" terminology 🤠

Thank you, I’ve always tried to embrace the “to teach” part of “doctor”*, your comment helps make my participation here worthwhile.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. I learned it from you. Among my 2 or 3 favorite terms, here and elsewhere.

Thank you, overly zealous with that clause, corrected.

(* “AI Overview: Doctor" originates from the Latin docēre ("to teach"), originally denoting a "teacher" or learned academic in the 14th century, not a medical practitioner. … Key Etymological Points: Doctor (Teacher): Used in the 14th century for eminent theologians or scholars approved to teach. Not until the 17th century did medical schools, particularly in Scotland, began popularizing "doctor" for physicians.”)

Quote above is a condensed explanation of how I stumbled upon Caps on High Fee Cards (How to Get Free SUB) and how to get some other free perks and benefits. I remain grateful to mia for that lesson (and all other lessons).

My point with this post is that contrary to my basic paradigm of just a year or so ago, perhaps as could have been expected, although I still believe that a nice SUB can still “justify” ONE high AF, the thought of “churning” any credit card is now far less distasteful than during the past 20-40 years. The high (no pun intended) of an instant approval and SUB is no longer quite as high, retention calls used to be fun and a little challenging, paying significant fees (e.g. estimated taxes with CC) to meet SUB minimum spends is now more annoying, I now have more points and miles than I can expect to use in my lifetime and I’m only familiar with 1 program (AA) that allowed quick and easy transfer of points or miles after death.

As such, being able to keep a high annual fee card open without paying that high AF while still being able to take advantage of perks and benefits, to me is a very welcome game-changer. My thanks again to all those here who have taught me so much.

(Oh yeah, getting back to teaching and The Wizard of Oz, I recently read the following: “AI Overview: Creating the Iconic Horse of a Different Color: In the 1939 film The Wizard of Oz, the "Horse of a Different Color" drew a carriage with color-changing horses using white horses tinted with safe, flavored gelatin powders (lemon, cherry, grape). The carriage itself was authentic, used by President Abraham Lincoln in 1863, and is now at the Judy Garland Museum.”)

When my younger son died (blood-clot induced heart attack after ten years of chewing tobacco), United Airlines (UA) made it extremely easy to transfer his miles.

See Miles transfer / usage upon member death (Posts # 176 & 253) (UA subforum).

Asking for some clarity since I am unfamiliar with this. Are you saying that if I lower my CL on my SR below $3,000 they will waive the annual fee ($795)?

I'm simply relating my experiences (in detail) which might be similar for other people and/or YMMV.