It's not that I got a better status thanks to what I flew in 2024 and 2025 on top of what I flew in 2023. I would have got exactly the same status w/o flying at all in 2023! And they weren't transparent about it. On the contrary they put it in writing and made me believe what was earned in 2023 will be rolled over.

Indeed, that's what i'm not happy about. All they said before the new programme started was they would have a fair transition. I didn't entirely trust that hence i contacted them right at the end of 2023. And it seemed they would keep their promise by what they replied back then. The reality was different though, hence the reason I called it a scam.

I don�t see how you are getting that from the email that you quoted. It only says that you will be FTL through Feb 2027 and explains why they might not immediately send you a new card which reflects that end date.

Under both the old rules and the new rules, if you qualified for a higher level, i.e., Senator from FTL, the old qualificaiton disappears and does not carry over to the future. The program always had the soft landing feature, which took care of this. However, with the switch to the new rules, each new status is only valid for a year. Same applies to the soft landing.
If you qualified for Senator under the new rules, once that status expires, you still have one year of FTL as soft landing.
And as others said - FTL qualification never earned upgrade vouchers. Those only come with Sentator or HON.

They put in writing that your FQTV status would be extended until Feb. 27. And it was.
You misunderstood the message. You thought it would mean that they would grant you 2 years extra FQTV after expiration of your SEN status, but you are wrong. They did not make you believe FQTV would be rolled over years later, that's what you made out of it. And now you are frustrated and call them scam.

And it also has nothing to do with the new programme or with the transition. It has always been like that. You earn a status and later on you earn an even higher status on top of that.

You earned FQTV from somewhere in 2023 until Feb 2027
Later on you earned SEN from somewhere in 2024 until Feb 2027. As this status is higher, this status counts for your benefits. By earning SEN status, you made the FQTV status irrelevant.

I don't know what's so difficult to understand. There is no scam and everything was perfectly according to the rules and perfectly transparent.
The only thing is that there were no evouchers for FQTV, so that was a mistake. But even if there were, you would not have received them for the extension, since you earned them for reaching SEN. So you got the evouchers as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jochen_vdk

They put in writing that your FQTV status would be extended until Feb. 27. And it was.

It was never the case. They did not get to issue the card valid to Feb 2027. In 2024 I enjoyed the FT status earned in 2022! So, whether they had in mind or not the scenario I am in, they simply preferred to keep quiet about it. I wouldn�t have chosen them so often in 2024 and 2025 had I known what their strategy was. Nobody can tell me they were transparent here. Neither fair. Someone who qualified for SEN in 2023 would have had 2 years guaranteed of SEN w/o bothering to fly anymore. I got the same benefit but putting the effort to hit the SEN target in 2024 (and then again 2025) and as an �added recognition� I got no reward for the travel I did in 2023.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jochen_vdk

You earned FQTV from somewhere in 2023 until Feb 2027
Later on you earned SEN from somewhere in 2024 until Feb 2027.

You�re trying to explain me with a mixed example of qualification years before and after 1-Jan-2024 which isn�t fair unless these rules had been published well in advance by M&M. Were the transition rules set out anywhere ? Did they have an option to be transparent when I contacted them and not make me stick with M&M partners in 2024? Was the transition in their favour and to my disadvantage ? I have all the answers already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jochen_vdk

I don't know what's so difficult to understand.

I�m the stubborn guy not wanting to accept Senator members were privileged compared to Frequent Travellers by this transition as shown with the above example. All this despite being a Frequent traveller often exceeding and getting close to the Senator miles threshold in the years before. So, understand my frustration please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jochen_vdk

So you got the evouchers as well.

I did get vouchers too but by putting extra effort into it and not simply because of qualifying in 2023. When they were wrong yet so clear in their statement, I need to accept it was a mistake. I would have preferred a link to the rules for awarding eVouchers valid before 1-Jan-2024 but they are probably long gone now.


Wiser to stop the conversation here. I appreciate you all sharing your views !
​​​​​​​

I agree ​​​​​​​

So you'd rather not be SEN and only be FTL?

You do understand SEN have all the benefits of FTL and more, right? You get all the benefits of FTL, as promised, and all benefits of SEN on top of that.



The transition rules were published and well understood and certainly they were gamed on Flyertalk.



I still don't understand how SEN were privileged compared to FTL in qualification. You got close to SEN threshold? That means you didn't get to the SEN threshold. This is a yes and no question, not "close enough" question.



There were never any eVouchers for FTL, now, or in the old system. I certainly wish there were, I could have used them over the years I was FTL, but I never got any - only the ones for SEN requal.

Well there was one evoucher at from memory 700 or 800 points, ie slightly above the qualification threshold

Put all aspects into balance not simply question what I would prefer between the two. When the spend required to go up to SEN entitles you to the benefits for a shorter period than under the old programme my choice would be to rather save resources and enjoy a last full 2 years FTL cycle.

Alright, I wasn�t precise enough with that wording although I had shared what my situation was. It�s the case of those FTLs who advance to SEN right at the start of the new programme. And similarly, there could have been the case of SEN advancing to HON Circle.

Example.:

Traveller FS: qualified for FTL in 2022 and 2023. They qualified for SEN in 2024. With the transition to the new system, they get to be FTL in 2023 and 2024 while in 2025 they are SEN and again FTL in 2026 (assuming they stop chasing any status in 2025). If there was no transition, they would have been FTL in 2023 and 2024 then SEN for 2025 and 2026 and FTL again for 2027.

Traveller S: qualified for SEN in 2022 and 2023. They continued to hit SEN threshold (or wiser if they didn�t) in 2024. With the transition to the new system, they get to be SEN in 2023 and 2024 plus one more 2-year cycle of SEN throughout 2025 and 2026 and again FTL in 2027 (for comparability here assuming as well they stop chasing any status in 2025). If there was no transition, they would have identically retained their SEN up to the end of 2026 and FTL in 2027.

Traveller F: qualified for FTL in 2022 and 2023. They continued to hit FTL threshold (or wiser if they didn�t) in 2024. With the transition to the new system, they get to be FTL in 2023 and 2024 plus one more 2-year cycle of FTL throughout 2025 and 2026 (for comparability here assuming as well they stop chasing any status in 2025). If there was no transition, they would have identically retained their FTL up to and including 2026

So former FTLs under the old programme but fresh SENs under the new program (like Traveller FS) are worse off during transition than long running SEN members (Traveller S). Traveller FS doesn�t get any recognition for their activity in 2023 which doesn�t happen with a Traveller S.
Traveller FS is also worse off than Traveller F or Traveller S from a benefit/spend standpoint. Comparing to Traveller F it enjoys the same number of FTL years (partially thanks to the soft landing) and one additional SEN but bearing the additional cost of one SEN qualification year. The spend for a SEN qualification done at the right moment (that is not on the first year of the new programme) returns alone the benefit of one SEN plus one FTL year. Sadly, traveller FS got the assurance in an email from M&M they�d not lose what they earned under the old programme, but the fine print of the story was completely hidden away from them. So, they fell into the trap and qualified for a higher status in 2024.
And finally comparing to Traveller S there is a higher spend for Traveller FS if they wanted to enjoy the same length of SEN under the new programme. If M&M�s argument for it is Traveller�s S legacy, then they shouldn�t entirely forsake Traveller�s FS legacy either.

�Well understood� for readers of this thread maybe which I joined only last year. All they said through the official channels was there would be a �fair� transition. I�ve just proved Traveller FS didn�t have it as fair as F and S.
Were they anywhere clearly describing the rules for status roll-over and specifically what happens with those silly enough to qualify for a higher status during the first year of the new programme and who still had benefits from the past? They kept quiet including when I wrote them. If they hadn�t done it, they would have lost some revenue from �saturated� travellers heading to the competition in 2024.

Possibly the agent that confirmed I�d get them was a begginer. For my awareness, if you or someone else saved the provisions for eVoucher valid before Jan-2024 please share.

Select benefit used to be available to FTL at 50K miles, but did not include evouchers.

Qualification entitles you to enjoy the benefits for the same time, under old system for 2 years, under new system for 1 year. You didn't not get 2 years of FTL, you got 1 (and then another 1) year of SEN on top of that.

Travellers F and S in turn did not get "any recognition" for their travel in 2024. Welcome to the dead year.
If the old system persisted, FS would have not get "any recognition" for one (or both!) of 2025 and 2026 depending on when they requalify for SEN.

Dead year has been eliminated in the new system.

The rules for the transition period were described and understood by anyone who bothered to read and understand them. The fact that you didn't bother to read and understand them doesn't make them unfair and just isn't a M&M problem by definition.
M&M was always "losing revenue from saturated travellers" in as much as those who bothered to move their spending away from *A in their dead years. This is not new, in fact what is new is that this is no longer a possibility.


Once again, there were no provisions for eVouchers for FTL because FTL did not get any evouchers. You got incorrect information from the agent.

Have just checked my statement from 2024 - it posted as Miles & More Selections: 1 evoucher.

this was October 2024 when I was FTL already and crossed the QP threshold for this benefit (as I said from memory it was 700 or 800 QP - so you need to do better than the FTL threshold). I then qualified as SEN in December 2024 and got two additional evouchers.

For 700 qualifying points you will get one evoucher
https://www.miles-and-more.com/ch/de...-benefits.html

Are you saying if I hadn't chased any status in 2024, I wouldn’t have enjoyed the FTL earned in 2023 for 2 years 2025 & 2026 ? This is what I meant when I responded I would have preferred not to make the spend in 2024 to go up to SEN. And that M&M agent clearly confirmed in early 2024 when I had not yet flown much that year that I’d have FTL until early 2027.

“Dead year” ! Sounds dreadful. Sadly, I learnt this term very late, here in this forum. If this had been an M&M formal concept they could have reminded travellers of its impact during transition period.
Are you not making a contradiction here though ? On one hand dead year was eliminated in the new system, but on the other hand it disadvantaged two types of travellers causing them not to get any recognition for a qualification year in the ...same new system.
In any case, the point I made about traveller FS was being worse off compared to S for an old programme qualification year not in the new one. For a qualification year in the new system, they all get equal treatment relative to their spend.

I agree and reflect this with the FS example. But the lack of recognition compared to S which I was alleging referred to a qualification year under the old system.

If anyone tells me the official communication channels should have made it clear what the status roll-over rules were during transition when their own staff wasn’t able to convey simple provisions about the eVouchers benefit, then I have the right to call M&M and their “official channels” a big scam.

I expect you answer not using a less polite tone than I used when replying to you. I “bothered” to read their communications but there was nothing tackling cases like mine hence the reason I contacted them. I reckon it would have been more clear had I been a member of this forum and actively asked questions well before the transition. If you mean this forum is one of their official channels, then I must admit my mistake of staying well misinformed relying on their newsletters or support desk. Otherwise, do not make a biased statement that everything was clear and on top of it spit an offense to a fellow member of the forum. Bring a proof in the form of a communication you saved from M&M where they were sending out those “well understood rules”.