Nov 7, 2015, 1:37 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
DoT is proposing new IDB rules effective 21 April 2021
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DoT's 14 CFR Part 250 - OVERSALES
DoT's WRITTEN EXPLANATION OF DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION AND BOARDING PRIORITIES
DoT's A Consumer Guide to Air Travel -- see Overbooking
UA's Contact of Carriage -- see RULE 25 DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION
IMPORTANT: Per the DOT reg linked above, IDB compensation only applies if the flight is oversold.
-- There must be a request for volunteers
-- The IDBed individual must be given a written explanation
-- Compensation must be in cash or check form unless passengers agrees to other method
-- Delay is to destination or first stopover (a deliberate interruption of a journey by the passenger, scheduled to exceed 4 hours)
Domestic Compensation
0 to 1 hour arrival delay ... No compensation
1 to 2 hour arrival delay ... 200% of one-way fare (but no more than $675)
Over 2 hours arrival delay ... 400% of one-way fare (but no more than $1,350)
International Compensation
0 to 1 hour arrival delay ... No compensation
1 to 4 hour arrival delay ... 200% of one-way fare (but no more than $675)
Over 4 hours arrival delay ... 400% of one-way fare (but no more than $1,350)
Exemptions
UA provided the following in its United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report
FAQS
As a cleared Standby passenger, am I protect / due compensation if IDB'ed?
Appears no
My DOT contact just replied with similar information. He's a recently retired DOT official who spent his career handling these types of issues and interacting with the public. He gave me permission to post his response.
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DoT's 14 CFR Part 250 - OVERSALES
DoT's WRITTEN EXPLANATION OF DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION AND BOARDING PRIORITIES
DoT's A Consumer Guide to Air Travel -- see Overbooking
UA's Contact of Carriage -- see RULE 25 DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION
IMPORTANT: Per the DOT reg linked above, IDB compensation only applies if the flight is oversold.
-- There must be a request for volunteers
-- The IDBed individual must be given a written explanation
-- Compensation must be in cash or check form unless passengers agrees to other method
-- Delay is to destination or first stopover (a deliberate interruption of a journey by the passenger, scheduled to exceed 4 hours)
Domestic Compensation
0 to 1 hour arrival delay ... No compensation
1 to 2 hour arrival delay ... 200% of one-way fare (but no more than $675)
Over 2 hours arrival delay ... 400% of one-way fare (but no more than $1,350)
International Compensation
0 to 1 hour arrival delay ... No compensation
1 to 4 hour arrival delay ... 200% of one-way fare (but no more than $675)
Over 4 hours arrival delay ... 400% of one-way fare (but no more than $1,350)
If your ticket does not show a fare (for example, a frequent-flyer award ticket or a ticket issued by a consolidator), your denied boarding compensation is based on the lowest cash, check or credit card payment charged for a ticket in the same class of service (e.g., coach, first class) on that flight.
If you are denied boarding involuntarily, you are entitled to a payment of denied boarding compensation from the airline unless:
(1) you have not fully complied with the airlines ticketing, check-in and reconfirmation requirements, or you are not acceptable for transportation under the airlines usual rules and practices; or
(2) you are denied boarding because the flight is canceled; or
(3) you are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted for safety or operational reasons; or
(4) on a flight operated with an aircraft having 60 or fewer seats, you are denied boarding due to safety-related weight/balance restrictions that limit payload; or
(5) you are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than specified in your ticket, at no extra charge (a passenger seated in a section for which a lower fare is charged must be given an appropriate refund); or
(6) the airline is able to place you on another flight or flights that are planned to reach your next stopover or final destination within one hour of the planned arrival time of your original flight.
(1) you have not fully complied with the airlines ticketing, check-in and reconfirmation requirements, or you are not acceptable for transportation under the airlines usual rules and practices; or
(2) you are denied boarding because the flight is canceled; or
(3) you are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted for safety or operational reasons; or
(4) on a flight operated with an aircraft having 60 or fewer seats, you are denied boarding due to safety-related weight/balance restrictions that limit payload; or
(5) you are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than specified in your ticket, at no extra charge (a passenger seated in a section for which a lower fare is charged must be given an appropriate refund); or
(6) the airline is able to place you on another flight or flights that are planned to reach your next stopover or final destination within one hour of the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation
A. Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:1. Request for Volunteersa. UA will request Passengers who are willing to relinquish their confirmed reserved space in exchange for compensation in an amount determined by UA (including but not limited to check or an electronic travel certificate). The travel certificate will be valid only for travel on UA or designated Codeshare partners for one year from the date of issue and will have no refund value. If a Passenger is asked to volunteer, UA will not later deny boarding to that Passenger involuntarily unless that Passenger was informed at the time he was asked to volunteer that there was a possibility of being denied boarding involuntarily and of the amount of compensation to which he/she would have been entitled in that event. The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
2. Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UAs boarding priority:a. Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
b. The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passengers fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
3. Transportation for Passengers Denied Boarding - When UA is unable to provide previously confirmed space due to an Oversold flight, UA will provide transportation to such Passengers who have been denied boarding whether voluntarily or involuntarily in accordance with the provisions below.a. UA will transport the Passenger on its own flight to the Destination without Stopover on its next flight on which space is available at no additional cost to the Passenger, regardless of class of service.
b. If space is available on another Carriers flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon Uniteds sole discretion and the Passengers request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
4. Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarilya. For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passengers first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passengers Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passengers original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passengers Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passengers original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passengers first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
b. For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passengers first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passengers Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passengers original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passengers Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passengers original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passengers first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c. For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passengers Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passengers original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passengers Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passengers original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passengers request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d. EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:i. The flight is cancelled;
ii. The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
iii. The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
iv. The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
v. The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passengers next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
vi. The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
vii. The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
5. Payment Time and Form for Passengers Traveling Between Points within the United States or from the United States to a Foreign Pointa. Compensation in the form of check will be made by UA on the day and at the place where the failure to provide confirmed reserved space occurs, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA. However, when UA has arranged, for the Passengers convenience, Alternate Transportation that departs before the compensation to the Passenger under this provision can be prepared and given to the Passenger, the compensation shall be sent by mail or other means to the Passenger within 24 hours thereafter.
b. UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
6. Limitation of Liability - If UAs offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is accepted by the Passenger, such payment will constitute full compensation for all actual or anticipatory damages incurred or to be incurred by the Passenger as a result of UAs failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. If UAs offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is not accepted, UAs liability is limited to actual damages proved not to exceed 1350 USD per Ticketed Passenger as a result of UAs failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. Passenger will be responsible for providing documentation of all actual damages claimed. UA shall not be liable for any punitive, consequential or special damages arising out of or in connection with UAs failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space.
B. Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
A. Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:1. Request for Volunteersa. UA will request Passengers who are willing to relinquish their confirmed reserved space in exchange for compensation in an amount determined by UA (including but not limited to check or an electronic travel certificate). The travel certificate will be valid only for travel on UA or designated Codeshare partners for one year from the date of issue and will have no refund value. If a Passenger is asked to volunteer, UA will not later deny boarding to that Passenger involuntarily unless that Passenger was informed at the time he was asked to volunteer that there was a possibility of being denied boarding involuntarily and of the amount of compensation to which he/she would have been entitled in that event. The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
2. Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UAs boarding priority:a. Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
b. The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passengers fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
3. Transportation for Passengers Denied Boarding - When UA is unable to provide previously confirmed space due to an Oversold flight, UA will provide transportation to such Passengers who have been denied boarding whether voluntarily or involuntarily in accordance with the provisions below.a. UA will transport the Passenger on its own flight to the Destination without Stopover on its next flight on which space is available at no additional cost to the Passenger, regardless of class of service.
b. If space is available on another Carriers flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon Uniteds sole discretion and the Passengers request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
4. Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarilya. For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passengers first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passengers Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passengers original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passengers Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passengers original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passengers first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
b. For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passengers first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passengers Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passengers original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passengers Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passengers original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passengers first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c. For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passengers Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passengers original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passengers Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passengers original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passengers request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d. EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:i. The flight is cancelled;
ii. The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
iii. The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
iv. The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
v. The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passengers next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
vi. The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
vii. The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
5. Payment Time and Form for Passengers Traveling Between Points within the United States or from the United States to a Foreign Pointa. Compensation in the form of check will be made by UA on the day and at the place where the failure to provide confirmed reserved space occurs, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA. However, when UA has arranged, for the Passengers convenience, Alternate Transportation that departs before the compensation to the Passenger under this provision can be prepared and given to the Passenger, the compensation shall be sent by mail or other means to the Passenger within 24 hours thereafter.
b. UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
6. Limitation of Liability - If UAs offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is accepted by the Passenger, such payment will constitute full compensation for all actual or anticipatory damages incurred or to be incurred by the Passenger as a result of UAs failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. If UAs offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is not accepted, UAs liability is limited to actual damages proved not to exceed 1350 USD per Ticketed Passenger as a result of UAs failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. Passenger will be responsible for providing documentation of all actual damages claimed. UA shall not be liable for any punitive, consequential or special damages arising out of or in connection with UAs failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space.
B. Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
Involuntary Denied Boarding (IDB) Selection Process
United's involuntary denied boarding (IDB) process is automated and customers are not subject to discretionary choice by agents. This is our process:
United's involuntary denied boarding (IDB) process is automated and customers are not subject to discretionary choice by agents. This is our process:
- First, agents will deny boarding if a passenger does not have a seat assignment prior to boarding the aircraft.
- Customers are then sorted by fare class (estimated fare paid) and type of itinerary.
- Customers with the lowest paid fare are placed at the top of the list for involuntary denial of boarding.
- If a group of customers paid the same fare, then the group is sorted by time of check-in.
- Customers with frequent flyer status will not be involuntarily denied boarding, unless all of the remaining passengers have frequent flyer status, in which case the lowest status will move to the top of the IDB list.
- Customers with special needs (unaccompanied minors, passengers with disabilities) are excluded and are not involuntarily denied boarding.
As a cleared Standby passenger, am I protect / due compensation if IDB'ed?
Appears no
The DOT representative responded to me today and said that United's interpretation is correct. 14 CFR 250 only applies to confirmed reserved space, which does not cover standby passengers. So kudos to those here who knew!
It is an interesting interpretation because when I was given a BP, my reservation on the later flight was cancelled. So does that mean that technically at that moment I had no confirmed, reserved space on any flight? Maybe flying standby to leave early is riskier than I thought!
It is an interesting interpretation because when I was given a BP, my reservation on the later flight was cancelled. So does that mean that technically at that moment I had no confirmed, reserved space on any flight? Maybe flying standby to leave early is riskier than I thought!
Although Part 250 uses (and defines) the term confirmed reserved space, neither DOT, nor to my knowledge the industry, has distinguished between a reservation that is confirmed and one that is not. DOT has never acknowledged the existence of a reservation that is not confirmed. You either have a reservation or you dont. In that sense, the word confirmed in the term confirmed reserved space (a term that goes back to the original Part 250 that was enacted fifty years ago) is redundant.
When a standby passenger is boarded even with a seat assignment and boarding pass this does not constitute issuing him/her confirmed reserved space. I see nothing in the definition of confirmed reserved space in section 250.1 that implies that clearing standby gives a passenger confirmed reserved space. When a flight is oversold, airlines make every effort to ensure that individuals who need to be bumped involuntarily will be denied boarding before they are boarded. Thats simply the easiest way for everyone the airline and the passengers. But occasionally a standby passenger needs to be removed after having been boarded. That does not entitle that passenger to the protections of Part 250, as he/she never had a reservation.
Part 250 doesnt say that passengers cant be bumped after being boarded.
When a standby passenger is boarded even with a seat assignment and boarding pass this does not constitute issuing him/her confirmed reserved space. I see nothing in the definition of confirmed reserved space in section 250.1 that implies that clearing standby gives a passenger confirmed reserved space. When a flight is oversold, airlines make every effort to ensure that individuals who need to be bumped involuntarily will be denied boarding before they are boarded. Thats simply the easiest way for everyone the airline and the passengers. But occasionally a standby passenger needs to be removed after having been boarded. That does not entitle that passenger to the protections of Part 250, as he/she never had a reservation.
Part 250 doesnt say that passengers cant be bumped after being boarded.
The changing story of IDB on UA since the merge and post-Dao
source: BTS Data
source: BTS Data
Code:
IDB/VDB data for UA 1st Qtr Year VDB IDB 2019 8,856 14 2018 8,214 27 2017 15,917 900 2016 14,380 929 2015 17,373 1,817 2014 21,469 4,395 2013 14,095 2,592
Is this IDB? Am I entitled to IDB compensation? [Consolidated]
Aug 27, 2025 | 11:35 am
#376
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Aug 27, 2025 | 2:27 pm
#377
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Have you determined the cause of the problem and which airline caused it? Might be best to wait for DoT to help determine that and then the appropriate airline might be more willing to discuss compensation. But incidental expenses like deposit, non-refundable payments, ... will likely not be covered due to the CoC.
I don't think DoT will get involved in helping us figure out which airline screwed up. And anyway, I don't think they will do anything if one or both of them screwed up ticketing.
Aug 27, 2025 | 3:27 pm
#378
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Not legally viable. The customer waives consequential damages and that waiver will generally be enforceable except in instances amounting to recklessness or deliberate misconduct. There's also a doctrine called the economic loss rule which precludes recover for purely economic losses based on negligence.
Jan 4, 2026 | 7:10 pm
#379
Join Date: May 2001
Location: HNL
Posts: 1,075
I was torn between starting an Voluntary Denied Boarding VDB/bump experiences on UA [2026-2027] edition thread, but since I'm not 100% sure if this is IDB or VDB... this thread won out.
It was just a few weeks ago that I read a story on OMAAT about Delta not honoring a VDB comp that they acknowledged was legitimately offered, and thought, "wow, that is truly awful". Fast forward to today, and it was my family's turn to fall victim to a VDB shell game. While nowhere near as egregious as a $15,000 con, it still stings nonetheless.
My niece and nephew were checking in for a UA flight out of ZRH this morning, when an announcement was made seeking volunteers in turn for $1,000 US dollars. They repeated the $1,000 US dollars phrasing multiple times, never mentioning "travel certificate". They went to the agent and said they would be willing to accept $2,000 US and business class seats the following day. They also specifically advised the agent to not touch their seats/reservation until it was verified that United indeed needed the seats, AND that they would accept their bid terms.
After some time passed, they were called back up to the podium. The agent said that business was a no-go, and asked if they still wanted to consider $2,000 if he could get approval. They indicated they would wait to see if the $2k payment would be approved.
After the call ended, the agent said, " OK, you're all set - I am issuing you both a $2,000 Travel Certificate". To which they immediately responded, "NO, thank you - we do not accept your revised offer. Our bid was for $2,000 dollars cash".
At this point, the agent says, "it's too late, I've already given your seats away".
Since no agreement of terms was reached (and they were very up front in stating that seats should not be touched until agreement is confirmed), I think this would fall under VDB, with applicable EC261 payment required. Yes? No? To add extra insult, only one of them received email confirmation of a travel cert being issued, and United would not return their bags for the extra overnight.
They'll be checking back in within the next few hours - any advice??
Mahalo!
It was just a few weeks ago that I read a story on OMAAT about Delta not honoring a VDB comp that they acknowledged was legitimately offered, and thought, "wow, that is truly awful". Fast forward to today, and it was my family's turn to fall victim to a VDB shell game. While nowhere near as egregious as a $15,000 con, it still stings nonetheless.
My niece and nephew were checking in for a UA flight out of ZRH this morning, when an announcement was made seeking volunteers in turn for $1,000 US dollars. They repeated the $1,000 US dollars phrasing multiple times, never mentioning "travel certificate". They went to the agent and said they would be willing to accept $2,000 US and business class seats the following day. They also specifically advised the agent to not touch their seats/reservation until it was verified that United indeed needed the seats, AND that they would accept their bid terms.
After some time passed, they were called back up to the podium. The agent said that business was a no-go, and asked if they still wanted to consider $2,000 if he could get approval. They indicated they would wait to see if the $2k payment would be approved.
After the call ended, the agent said, " OK, you're all set - I am issuing you both a $2,000 Travel Certificate". To which they immediately responded, "NO, thank you - we do not accept your revised offer. Our bid was for $2,000 dollars cash".
At this point, the agent says, "it's too late, I've already given your seats away".
Since no agreement of terms was reached (and they were very up front in stating that seats should not be touched until agreement is confirmed), I think this would fall under VDB, with applicable EC261 payment required. Yes? No? To add extra insult, only one of them received email confirmation of a travel cert being issued, and United would not return their bags for the extra overnight.
They'll be checking back in within the next few hours - any advice??
Mahalo!
Jan 4, 2026 | 7:21 pm
#380
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First, VDB by UA are ETCs, no cash. (as you see in the VDB thread). The expectation for cash was misplaced.
They made a offer and UA accepted, they misunderstand the offer they made. Did they every specifically say CASH and not ETC? Because if they had the discussion would have ended. So, offer made and accepted, no IDB.
The truth is the GA does not have the time to play games with passengers. You are either offering or not.
They made a offer and UA accepted, they misunderstand the offer they made. Did they every specifically say CASH and not ETC? Because if they had the discussion would have ended. So, offer made and accepted, no IDB.
The truth is the GA does not have the time to play games with passengers. You are either offering or not.
Jan 4, 2026 | 7:24 pm
#381
Join Date: May 2001
Location: HNL
Posts: 1,075
First, VDB by UA are ETCs, no cash. (as you see in the VDB thread). The expectation for cash was misplaced.
They made a offer and UA accepted, they misunderstand the offer. Did they every specifically say CASH and not ETC. Because if they had the discussion would have ended. So offer made and accepted, no IDB.
The truth is the GA does not have the time to play games with passengers. You are either offering or not.
They made a offer and UA accepted, they misunderstand the offer. Did they every specifically say CASH and not ETC. Because if they had the discussion would have ended. So offer made and accepted, no IDB.
The truth is the GA does not have the time to play games with passengers. You are either offering or not.
Edited to add...
EC261 article 4, bolding mine.
Denied boarding
1. When an operating air carrier reasonably expects to deny boarding on a flight, it shall first call for volunteers to surrender their reservations in exchange for benefits under conditions to be agreed between the passenger concerned and the operating air carrier. Volunteers shall be assisted in accordance with Article 8, such assistance being additional to the benefits mentioned in this paragraph.
Last edited by Wx4caster; Jan 4, 2026 at 7:39 pm Reason: Add text from EC261 Article 4
Jan 4, 2026 | 8:06 pm
#382
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Unless the passengers explicitly stated cash and that they would not accept ETC, this is going no where. ETC are referred to by their dollar value.
Jan 4, 2026 | 8:14 pm
#383
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 25,578
1. When an operating air carrier reasonably expects to deny boarding on a flight, it shall first call for volunteers to surrender their reservations in exchange for benefits under conditions to be agreed between the passenger concerned and the operating air carrier. Volunteers shall be assisted in accordance with Article 8, such assistance being additional to the benefits mentioned in this paragraph.
ETCs can be used for any traveler, and while its against the terms and conditions to exchange them for cash, I assume neither you nor your niece or nephew would go out of your way to mention it.
Jan 4, 2026 | 8:49 pm
#384
Join Date: May 2001
Location: HNL
Posts: 1,075
As I said from the start, I'm not sure what category this falls under. Thanks for your take fellow quadranscentennial-year FTer
Jan 4, 2026 | 9:12 pm
#387
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Join Date: Oct 2001
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Posts: 25,578
Well, half delivered. One didn't even get that (yet). I wasn't present, so can only go by what I was told, which was that the agent offered amounts in "US dollars", and the passengers' requested "benefits for consideration" was also in "US dollars". Outside the FT Community, most consumers would likely expect a carrier to specify their offer was "a certificate valued at $x US dollars"
I'm not sure what you mean by, "to mention it", or otherwise implying by this statement. If nothing else, the certs should fund them a trip out to visit us in HI - possibly even in a front cabin for one direction, assuming UA corrects the missing cert. (at this point, I'm assuming that issue could have just been a typo in one of the email addresses... TBD).
Keep in mind that the increasingly-expansive reading of EC.261/2004 by various ECJ judges does not apply to departures from Switzerland. However, I suppose its possible that a court might agree with your interpretation but presumably UA wouldnt have to honor the ETCs if they had to pay the 600. I dont see any way that a Swiss court would find that UA had to pay $2,000 cash. So the best case scenario here would be that they trade their $2,000 ETCs for 600 each.
Jan 5, 2026 | 1:46 am
#389
Join Date: May 2001
Location: HNL
Posts: 1,075
Slight update, they still haven't found anyone at ZRH willing to at least assist in determining the whereabouts of the missing ETC.
Jan 5, 2026 | 3:07 am
#390
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forget ZRH. Deal with it with US CS. Having one is going to make this easy