Nov 7, 2015, 1:37 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
DoT is proposing new IDB rules effective 21 April 2021
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DoT's 14 CFR Part 250 - OVERSALES
DoT's WRITTEN EXPLANATION OF DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION AND BOARDING PRIORITIES
DoT's A Consumer Guide to Air Travel -- see Overbooking
UA's Contact of Carriage -- see RULE 25 DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION
IMPORTANT: Per the DOT reg linked above, IDB compensation only applies if the flight is oversold.
-- There must be a request for volunteers
-- The IDBed individual must be given a written explanation
-- Compensation must be in cash or check form unless passengers agrees to other method
-- Delay is to destination or first stopover (a deliberate interruption of a journey by the passenger, scheduled to exceed 4 hours)
Domestic Compensation
0 to 1 hour arrival delay ... No compensation
1 to 2 hour arrival delay ... 200% of one-way fare (but no more than $675)
Over 2 hours arrival delay ... 400% of one-way fare (but no more than $1,350)
International Compensation
0 to 1 hour arrival delay ... No compensation
1 to 4 hour arrival delay ... 200% of one-way fare (but no more than $675)
Over 4 hours arrival delay ... 400% of one-way fare (but no more than $1,350)
Exemptions
UA provided the following in its United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report
FAQS
As a cleared Standby passenger, am I protect / due compensation if IDB'ed?
Appears no
My DOT contact just replied with similar information. He's a recently retired DOT official who spent his career handling these types of issues and interacting with the public. He gave me permission to post his response.
================================================== =
DoT's 14 CFR Part 250 - OVERSALES
DoT's WRITTEN EXPLANATION OF DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION AND BOARDING PRIORITIES
DoT's A Consumer Guide to Air Travel -- see Overbooking
UA's Contact of Carriage -- see RULE 25 DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION
IMPORTANT: Per the DOT reg linked above, IDB compensation only applies if the flight is oversold.
-- There must be a request for volunteers
-- The IDBed individual must be given a written explanation
-- Compensation must be in cash or check form unless passengers agrees to other method
-- Delay is to destination or first stopover (a deliberate interruption of a journey by the passenger, scheduled to exceed 4 hours)
Domestic Compensation
0 to 1 hour arrival delay ... No compensation
1 to 2 hour arrival delay ... 200% of one-way fare (but no more than $675)
Over 2 hours arrival delay ... 400% of one-way fare (but no more than $1,350)
International Compensation
0 to 1 hour arrival delay ... No compensation
1 to 4 hour arrival delay ... 200% of one-way fare (but no more than $675)
Over 4 hours arrival delay ... 400% of one-way fare (but no more than $1,350)
If your ticket does not show a fare (for example, a frequent-flyer award ticket or a ticket issued by a consolidator), your denied boarding compensation is based on the lowest cash, check or credit card payment charged for a ticket in the same class of service (e.g., coach, first class) on that flight.
If you are denied boarding involuntarily, you are entitled to a payment of “denied boarding compensation” from the airline unless:
(1) you have not fully complied with the airline’s ticketing, check-in and reconfirmation requirements, or you are not acceptable for transportation under the airline’s usual rules and practices; or
(2) you are denied boarding because the flight is canceled; or
(3) you are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted for safety or operational reasons; or
(4) on a flight operated with an aircraft having 60 or fewer seats, you are denied boarding due to safety-related weight/balance restrictions that limit payload; or
(5) you are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than specified in your ticket, at no extra charge (a passenger seated in a section for which a lower fare is charged must be given an appropriate refund); or
(6) the airline is able to place you on another flight or flights that are planned to reach your next stopover or final destination within one hour of the planned arrival time of your original flight.
(1) you have not fully complied with the airline’s ticketing, check-in and reconfirmation requirements, or you are not acceptable for transportation under the airline’s usual rules and practices; or
(2) you are denied boarding because the flight is canceled; or
(3) you are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted for safety or operational reasons; or
(4) on a flight operated with an aircraft having 60 or fewer seats, you are denied boarding due to safety-related weight/balance restrictions that limit payload; or
(5) you are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than specified in your ticket, at no extra charge (a passenger seated in a section for which a lower fare is charged must be given an appropriate refund); or
(6) the airline is able to place you on another flight or flights that are planned to reach your next stopover or final destination within one hour of the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation
A. Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:1. Request for Volunteersa. UA will request Passengers who are willing to relinquish their confirmed reserved space in exchange for compensation in an amount determined by UA (including but not limited to check or an electronic travel certificate). The travel certificate will be valid only for travel on UA or designated Codeshare partners for one year from the date of issue and will have no refund value. If a Passenger is asked to volunteer, UA will not later deny boarding to that Passenger involuntarily unless that Passenger was informed at the time he was asked to volunteer that there was a possibility of being denied boarding involuntarily and of the amount of compensation to which he/she would have been entitled in that event. The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
2. Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:a. Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
b. The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
3. Transportation for Passengers Denied Boarding - When UA is unable to provide previously confirmed space due to an Oversold flight, UA will provide transportation to such Passengers who have been denied boarding whether voluntarily or involuntarily in accordance with the provisions below.a. UA will transport the Passenger on its own flight to the Destination without Stopover on its next flight on which space is available at no additional cost to the Passenger, regardless of class of service.
b. If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
4. Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarilya. For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
b. For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c. For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passenger’s request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d. EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:i. The flight is cancelled;
ii. The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
iii. The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
iv. The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
v. The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passenger’s next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
vi. The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
vii. The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
5. Payment Time and Form for Passengers Traveling Between Points within the United States or from the United States to a Foreign Pointa. Compensation in the form of check will be made by UA on the day and at the place where the failure to provide confirmed reserved space occurs, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA. However, when UA has arranged, for the Passenger’s convenience, Alternate Transportation that departs before the compensation to the Passenger under this provision can be prepared and given to the Passenger, the compensation shall be sent by mail or other means to the Passenger within 24 hours thereafter.
b. UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
6. Limitation of Liability - If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is accepted by the Passenger, such payment will constitute full compensation for all actual or anticipatory damages incurred or to be incurred by the Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is not accepted, UA’s liability is limited to actual damages proved not to exceed 1350 USD per Ticketed Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. Passenger will be responsible for providing documentation of all actual damages claimed. UA shall not be liable for any punitive, consequential or special damages arising out of or in connection with UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space.
B. Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
A. Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:1. Request for Volunteersa. UA will request Passengers who are willing to relinquish their confirmed reserved space in exchange for compensation in an amount determined by UA (including but not limited to check or an electronic travel certificate). The travel certificate will be valid only for travel on UA or designated Codeshare partners for one year from the date of issue and will have no refund value. If a Passenger is asked to volunteer, UA will not later deny boarding to that Passenger involuntarily unless that Passenger was informed at the time he was asked to volunteer that there was a possibility of being denied boarding involuntarily and of the amount of compensation to which he/she would have been entitled in that event. The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
2. Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:a. Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
b. The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
3. Transportation for Passengers Denied Boarding - When UA is unable to provide previously confirmed space due to an Oversold flight, UA will provide transportation to such Passengers who have been denied boarding whether voluntarily or involuntarily in accordance with the provisions below.a. UA will transport the Passenger on its own flight to the Destination without Stopover on its next flight on which space is available at no additional cost to the Passenger, regardless of class of service.
b. If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
4. Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarilya. For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
b. For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c. For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passenger’s request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d. EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:i. The flight is cancelled;
ii. The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
iii. The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
iv. The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
v. The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passenger’s next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
vi. The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
vii. The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
5. Payment Time and Form for Passengers Traveling Between Points within the United States or from the United States to a Foreign Pointa. Compensation in the form of check will be made by UA on the day and at the place where the failure to provide confirmed reserved space occurs, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA. However, when UA has arranged, for the Passenger’s convenience, Alternate Transportation that departs before the compensation to the Passenger under this provision can be prepared and given to the Passenger, the compensation shall be sent by mail or other means to the Passenger within 24 hours thereafter.
b. UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
6. Limitation of Liability - If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is accepted by the Passenger, such payment will constitute full compensation for all actual or anticipatory damages incurred or to be incurred by the Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is not accepted, UA’s liability is limited to actual damages proved not to exceed 1350 USD per Ticketed Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. Passenger will be responsible for providing documentation of all actual damages claimed. UA shall not be liable for any punitive, consequential or special damages arising out of or in connection with UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space.
B. Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
Involuntary Denied Boarding (IDB) Selection Process
United's involuntary denied boarding (IDB) process is automated and customers are not subject to discretionary choice by agents. This is our process:
United's involuntary denied boarding (IDB) process is automated and customers are not subject to discretionary choice by agents. This is our process:
- First, agents will deny boarding if a passenger does not have a seat assignment prior to boarding the aircraft.
- Customers are then sorted by fare class (estimated fare paid) and type of itinerary.
- Customers with the lowest paid fare are placed at the top of the list for involuntary denial of boarding.
- If a group of customers paid the same fare, then the group is sorted by time of check-in.
- Customers with frequent flyer status will not be involuntarily denied boarding, unless all of the remaining passengers have frequent flyer status, in which case the lowest status will move to the top of the IDB list.
- Customers with special needs (unaccompanied minors, passengers with disabilities) are excluded and are not involuntarily denied boarding.
As a cleared Standby passenger, am I protect / due compensation if IDB'ed?
Appears no
The DOT representative responded to me today and said that United's interpretation is correct. 14 CFR 250 only applies to confirmed reserved space, which does not cover standby passengers. So kudos to those here who knew!
It is an interesting interpretation because when I was given a BP, my reservation on the later flight was cancelled. So does that mean that technically at that moment I had no confirmed, reserved space on any flight? Maybe flying standby to leave early is riskier than I thought!
…
It is an interesting interpretation because when I was given a BP, my reservation on the later flight was cancelled. So does that mean that technically at that moment I had no confirmed, reserved space on any flight? Maybe flying standby to leave early is riskier than I thought!
…
Although Part 250 uses (and defines) the term “confirmed reserved space,” neither DOT, nor to my knowledge the industry, has distinguished between a reservation that is confirmed and one that is not. DOT has never acknowledged the existence of a reservation that is not confirmed. You either have a reservation or you don’t. In that sense, the word “confirmed” in the term “confirmed reserved space” (a term that goes back to the original Part 250 that was enacted fifty years ago) is redundant.
When a standby passenger is boarded – even with a seat assignment and boarding pass – this does not constitute issuing him/her confirmed reserved space. I see nothing in the definition of “confirmed reserved space” in section 250.1 that implies that clearing standby gives a passenger “confirmed reserved space.” When a flight is oversold, airlines make every effort to ensure that individuals who need to be bumped involuntarily will be denied boarding before they are boarded. That’s simply the easiest way for everyone – the airline and the passengers. But occasionally a standby passenger needs to be removed after having been boarded. That does not entitle that passenger to the protections of Part 250, as he/she never had a reservation.
Part 250 doesn’t say that passengers can’t be bumped after being boarded.
When a standby passenger is boarded – even with a seat assignment and boarding pass – this does not constitute issuing him/her confirmed reserved space. I see nothing in the definition of “confirmed reserved space” in section 250.1 that implies that clearing standby gives a passenger “confirmed reserved space.” When a flight is oversold, airlines make every effort to ensure that individuals who need to be bumped involuntarily will be denied boarding before they are boarded. That’s simply the easiest way for everyone – the airline and the passengers. But occasionally a standby passenger needs to be removed after having been boarded. That does not entitle that passenger to the protections of Part 250, as he/she never had a reservation.
Part 250 doesn’t say that passengers can’t be bumped after being boarded.
The changing story of IDB on UA since the merge and post-Dao
source: BTS Data
source: BTS Data
Code:
IDB/VDB data for UA 1st Qtr Year VDB IDB 2019 8,856 14 2018 8,214 27 2017 15,917 900 2016 14,380 929 2015 17,373 1,817 2014 21,469 4,395 2013 14,095 2,592
Is this IDB? Am I entitled to IDB compensation? [Consolidated]
Feb 20, 2018, 8:48 pm
#241
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: LBB
Programs: UA 1K 1MM ★G | Marriott LTT | Hilton ♦ | Hertz PC | Global Entry TSA Pre ✓
Posts: 2,820
I have a situation where I think it might be IDB but want to know before I call customer care
I was fllying AVL - ORD - SEA. Inbound AVL delayed, leaving me with 20 minutes connection in Chicago. I hoofed it, and miraculously got to the gate right when the agents were ready to close it. Importantly, the gate had not closed yet. There were two agents at the desk, and very quickly one of the agents "boarded me" in the system while the other one escorted me on the plane which was clearly getting ready to door-close. But then the inflight crew said "oh the gate-check bag folks have left, and there is no space for this last second person's carry on in this full flight, we don't want to call back the gate-check folks and hold up the whole flight since we are already running 3 minutes late", so the agent escorted me back out of the plane since my bag could not be accomodated.
So, the agents said "okay let me undo your boarding" and they put me on the flight next morning. I got a hotel/food voucher so that's all fine.
I think whatever the agent did to "undo my boarding" removed any trace of the above chain of events happening in the system (of me actually boarding then denied boarding due to no space for my carry on bag), and all it shows is "your inbound flight was delated, we rebooked you on the next flight". So I'm not sure if this is IDB or not?
I was fllying AVL - ORD - SEA. Inbound AVL delayed, leaving me with 20 minutes connection in Chicago. I hoofed it, and miraculously got to the gate right when the agents were ready to close it. Importantly, the gate had not closed yet. There were two agents at the desk, and very quickly one of the agents "boarded me" in the system while the other one escorted me on the plane which was clearly getting ready to door-close. But then the inflight crew said "oh the gate-check bag folks have left, and there is no space for this last second person's carry on in this full flight, we don't want to call back the gate-check folks and hold up the whole flight since we are already running 3 minutes late", so the agent escorted me back out of the plane since my bag could not be accomodated.
So, the agents said "okay let me undo your boarding" and they put me on the flight next morning. I got a hotel/food voucher so that's all fine.
I think whatever the agent did to "undo my boarding" removed any trace of the above chain of events happening in the system (of me actually boarding then denied boarding due to no space for my carry on bag), and all it shows is "your inbound flight was delated, we rebooked you on the next flight". So I'm not sure if this is IDB or not?
Feb 20, 2018, 10:09 pm
#242
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,367
Technically, you were not in the boarding area 15 minutes or more from departure time, so (regardless of the root cause) you are treated as a missed connection and it would be a very tough argument for IDB comp.... I would recommend an email to customer care and I would bet you will receive a goodwill gesture ETC....
That's only important in that it gave the agents an opportunity to get you onto the flight. It's irrelevant when it comes to IDB regulations.
Aug 4, 2018, 12:51 pm
#243
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,772
The changing story of IDB on UA since the merge and post-Dao
source: BTS Data
source: BTS Data
Code:
IDB/VDB data for UA 1st Qtr Year VDB IDB 2018 8,214 27 2017 15,917 900 2016 14,380 929 2015 17,373 1,817 2014 21,464 4,395 2013 14,095 2,592
Aug 24, 2018, 3:52 pm
#244
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K, MM
Posts: 28
KRK-FRA-SFO, with a tight (1 hr) connection in FRA. Flight into FRA was delayed, landed about 30 min prior to departure -- checked my app and they'd already deplaned me (gave my seat to a standby passenger). Got off the plane from KRK 23 min prior to departure, and managed to get to the departure gate (up the elevator to Z, through security/immigration) right at the 15 minute mark, boarding pass in hand (knowing it was a futile gesture) -- gate area was empty, doors were clearly closed for quite some time. Got to have a bonus night in FRA and a ride on the LH 380 the next morning.
IDB? (I claimed yes, gate agents, after the fact, claimed no)
IDB? (I claimed yes, gate agents, after the fact, claimed no)
Last edited by pmgsfo; Aug 24, 2018 at 4:00 pm
Aug 24, 2018, 3:59 pm
#245
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,367
KRK-FRA-SFO, with a tight (1 hr) connection in FRA. Flight into FRA was delayed, landed about 30 min prior to departure -- checked my app and they'd already deplaned me. Got off the plane from KRK 23 min prior to departure, and managed to get to the departure gate (up the elevator, through security/immigration) right at the 15 minute mark, boarding pass in hand (knowing it was a futile gesture) -- gate area was empty, doors were clearly closed for quite some time. Got to have a bonus night in FRA and a ride on the LH 380 the next morning.
IDB? (I claimed yes, gate agents, after the fact, claimed no)
IDB? (I claimed yes, gate agents, after the fact, claimed no)
Aug 24, 2018, 4:15 pm
#246
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K, MM
Posts: 28
I've tried to run the United EU261 gauntlet in the past -- not a very rewarding experience. I did end up with a goodly amount of ETCs so I decided to end the frustration.
Aug 24, 2018, 4:19 pm
#247
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,772
Aug 24, 2018, 4:23 pm
#248
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K, MM
Posts: 28
Interesting; will need to look into that. LH did take care of me (hotel/food/rebooking).
Aug 24, 2018, 4:24 pm
#249
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,772
Aug 24, 2018, 4:29 pm
#250
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K, MM
Posts: 28
At the time, there was no monetary compensation offered (and they did not hand me the EU261 flyer), but I was too focused on the perceived slight from United. Time to contact LH! Thanks all.
Aug 24, 2018, 4:57 pm
#251
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,423
Not an IDB for many reasons.
First of all, DOT IDB rules apply only to U.S. departures. 14 CFR 250.2
Additionally, there is no indication this was an oversell. It's not an IDB if the flight was not oversold.
And of course for an international flight, you have to be at the gate 30 minutes before departure. If you don't timely present yourself, you're not in the game.
First of all, DOT IDB rules apply only to U.S. departures. 14 CFR 250.2
Additionally, there is no indication this was an oversell. It's not an IDB if the flight was not oversold.
And of course for an international flight, you have to be at the gate 30 minutes before departure. If you don't timely present yourself, you're not in the game.
Aug 24, 2018, 5:21 pm
#252
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: LBB
Programs: UA 1K 1MM ★G | Marriott LTT | Hilton ♦ | Hertz PC | Global Entry TSA Pre ✓
Posts: 2,820
KRK-FRA-SFO, with a tight (1 hr) connection in FRA. Flight into FRA was delayed, landed about 30 min prior to departure -- checked my app and they'd already deplaned me (gave my seat to a standby passenger). Got off the plane from KRK 23 min prior to departure, and managed to get to the departure gate (up the elevator to Z, through security/immigration) right at the 15 minute mark, boarding pass in hand (knowing it was a futile gesture) -- gate area was empty, doors were clearly closed for quite some time. Got to have a bonus night in FRA and a ride on the LH 380 the next morning.
IDB? (I claimed yes, gate agents, after the fact, claimed no)
IDB? (I claimed yes, gate agents, after the fact, claimed no)
Aug 25, 2018, 12:30 am
#253
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,394
Aug 25, 2018, 12:43 am
#254
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,423
Aug 25, 2018, 12:47 am
#255
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,394
If it's to something with hourly service like FRA-ZRH then I don't even sweat it since I'm sure I can get rebooked. I try to get a longer connection if the flight is more important, but even so I think I've almost always had time for a snack in the lounge. The fact that LH narrowbodies don't starting boarding until 15 minutes before departure really contributes (although if it's a bus gate you get stuck on the last bus).