Jan 1, 2024, 2:11 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Four letter codes are explained in post 1 - kindly read the summary.
FAQ : Reason for flight delay or cancellation - 2024 edition
Oct 28, 2024 | 8:21 am
#3646
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Edinburgh UK
Programs: BA Exec Gold, VS Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Silver
Posts: 77
Three different excuses for cancellation
BA cancelled BA1460 and an Aberdeen and Paris flight with 90 minutes before departure on Friday 18 October.
Been given three different reasons for cancellation by airline and refusal of compensation for cancellation.
Customer relations have issued a word salad of a reply gleaned from various cut n paste sentences.
My question is they say it was bad weather which it was 12 hours prior but at 1800hrs - no fog, rain, snow or high winds. More likely crew out of place? Aircraft was at LHR.
Advice please? CEDR?
Thanks
Been given three different reasons for cancellation by airline and refusal of compensation for cancellation.
Customer relations have issued a word salad of a reply gleaned from various cut n paste sentences.
My question is they say it was bad weather which it was 12 hours prior but at 1800hrs - no fog, rain, snow or high winds. More likely crew out of place? Aircraft was at LHR.
Advice please? CEDR?
Thanks
Oct 28, 2024 | 8:25 am
#3647
FlyerTalk Posting Legend and Ambassador: The British Airways Club
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, HH Diamond
Posts: 48,566
BA cancelled BA1460 and an Aberdeen and Paris flight with 90 minutes before departure on Friday 18 October.
Been given three different reasons for cancellation by airline and refusal of compensation for cancellation.
Customer relations have issued a word salad of a reply gleaned from various cut n paste sentences.
My question is they say it was bad weather which it was 12 hours prior but at 1800hrs - no fog, rain, snow or high winds. More likely crew out of place? Aircraft was at LHR.
Advice please? CEDR?
Thanks
Been given three different reasons for cancellation by airline and refusal of compensation for cancellation.
Customer relations have issued a word salad of a reply gleaned from various cut n paste sentences.
My question is they say it was bad weather which it was 12 hours prior but at 1800hrs - no fog, rain, snow or high winds. More likely crew out of place? Aircraft was at LHR.
Advice please? CEDR?
Thanks
Oct 28, 2024 | 8:30 am
#3648
FlyerTalk Posting Legend and Ambassador: The British Airways Club
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, HH Diamond
Posts: 48,566
also may be worth looking at this thread https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...ition-235.html
posts 3521 onwards relate to 18 October, and posts 3526 and 3551 are very relevant
posts 3521 onwards relate to 18 October, and posts 3526 and 3551 are very relevant
Oct 28, 2024 | 8:34 am
#3649
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Edinburgh UK
Programs: BA Exec Gold, VS Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Silver
Posts: 77
Oct 28, 2024 | 10:40 am
#3650
Join Date: May 2019
Location: FL390 or the iron way
Programs: For now: BA GGL, SAS EBG, AF Plat & LH SEN
Posts: 3,348
However if the delay had been sufficiently long, the "right to care" would apply regardless of the reason for the delay. "Beyond the airline's control" is only relevant to compensation, and in any event the case law suggests that bird strike delays are not necessarily exempt from compensation.
Oct 28, 2024 | 4:01 pm
#3651
Join Date: Dec 2023
Posts: 38
the operating capt was taken ill in YYZ, and a replacement capt had to be flown out on last nights 099, have minimum rest, and then operated the delayed flight back. It has now landed back at LHR
Oct 28, 2024 | 4:20 pm
#3652
Join Date: Oct 2024
Posts: 1
BA Delay - BA0617 - Perugia - London Heathrow - 6th August 2024
Hi all, I know its been a few months already but just hoping to find out if anyone knows the official reason for my delayed flight, which had a knock-on effect to missing a connecting flight (all under one booking).
BA keep closing my case without any final response so just want to check the details before submitting to CEDR.
The pilot did mention technical issues whilst we were waiting on the aircraft but he also mentioned something about missing the air traffic control slot, so Im just wondering how this has been logged officially.
Travel date: 06 August 2024
Flight BA 617 Perugia - London Heathrow
Any help is appreciated. Thank you.
BA keep closing my case without any final response so just want to check the details before submitting to CEDR.
The pilot did mention technical issues whilst we were waiting on the aircraft but he also mentioned something about missing the air traffic control slot, so Im just wondering how this has been logged officially.
Travel date: 06 August 2024
Flight BA 617 Perugia - London Heathrow
Any help is appreciated. Thank you.
Oct 29, 2024 | 6:59 am
#3653
Original Poster
Moderator: Iberia Club, Airport Lounges and Ambassador: The British Airways Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 71,029
The pilot did mention technical issues whilst we were waiting on the aircraft but he also mentioned something about missing the air traffic control slot, so Im just wondering how this has been logged officially.
Travel date: 06 August 2024
Flight BA 617 Perugia - London Heathrow
Travel date: 06 August 2024
Flight BA 617 Perugia - London Heathrow
Welcome to Flyertalk and welcome to the BA Forum.
Oct 29, 2024 | 7:10 am
#3654
Original Poster
Moderator: Iberia Club, Airport Lounges and Ambassador: The British Airways Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 71,029
Tuesday 29 October 2024
BA402 TLV = OPEN
BA404 TLV = OPEN
As yesterday, a technical late cancellation, they were really cancelled a long time back. A good day for flying, not too busy 323 departures for BA out of 640. Regulation was cancelled at 09:30 hrs.
Morning Operational Update
Landing RWY: 27L
Airborne holding (mins): 13
Departure RWY: 27R
TSAT delay average (mins): 0
Regulation: EGLL 43/60 0700-1000
Network:
Aerodromes
EDDF (Frankfurt)Arrivals regulated due to Weather (Fog).High delays.
EHAM (Amsterdam)Arrivals regulated due to Weather (LVP).Low to moderate delays.
GMMX (Marrakech)Arrivals regulated due to Special Event (Air Display).Moderate delays.
LEVC APP (Valencia APP)Traffic via Valencia APP sectors LECLVALT/VMIT/VSAL/VSVC (< F245) regulated due to Weather (CBs).Moderate to high delays.
LEMG (Malaga)Arrivals regulated with reduced rate due to ATC Equipment (TWR communication system issues).High delays.
LFPG (Charles De Gaulle)Arrivals regulated due to Weather (LVP).Low to moderate delays.
Airspace
LHCC (Budapest)Several sectors regulated due to ATC Equipment (Radar maintenance)Moderate to high delays.
Weather:
Cloudy start with patchy lower cloud maintaining the Low risk of VIS2 until 08Z. Some gaps developing in the cloud could allow patchy fog to form ,so there is also a Low risk of LVP until 07Z. Remaining mostly cloudy through the day, with a low risk of very isolated light showers in the afternoon. Light W'ly winds becoming NW'ly.
BA402 TLV = OPEN
BA404 TLV = OPEN
As yesterday, a technical late cancellation, they were really cancelled a long time back. A good day for flying, not too busy 323 departures for BA out of 640. Regulation was cancelled at 09:30 hrs.
Morning Operational Update
Landing RWY: 27L
Airborne holding (mins): 13
Departure RWY: 27R
TSAT delay average (mins): 0
Regulation: EGLL 43/60 0700-1000
Network:
Aerodromes
EDDF (Frankfurt)Arrivals regulated due to Weather (Fog).High delays.
EHAM (Amsterdam)Arrivals regulated due to Weather (LVP).Low to moderate delays.
GMMX (Marrakech)Arrivals regulated due to Special Event (Air Display).Moderate delays.
LEVC APP (Valencia APP)Traffic via Valencia APP sectors LECLVALT/VMIT/VSAL/VSVC (< F245) regulated due to Weather (CBs).Moderate to high delays.
LEMG (Malaga)Arrivals regulated with reduced rate due to ATC Equipment (TWR communication system issues).High delays.
LFPG (Charles De Gaulle)Arrivals regulated due to Weather (LVP).Low to moderate delays.
Airspace
LHCC (Budapest)Several sectors regulated due to ATC Equipment (Radar maintenance)Moderate to high delays.
Weather:
Cloudy start with patchy lower cloud maintaining the Low risk of VIS2 until 08Z. Some gaps developing in the cloud could allow patchy fog to form ,so there is also a Low risk of LVP until 07Z. Remaining mostly cloudy through the day, with a low risk of very isolated light showers in the afternoon. Light W'ly winds becoming NW'ly.
Oct 30, 2024 | 7:38 am
#3655
Original Poster
Moderator: Iberia Club, Airport Lounges and Ambassador: The British Airways Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 71,029
Wednesday 30 October 2024
BA404 TLV = OPEN
BA281 LAX
I think that LAX cancellation is lack of crew, but I don't know for certain. It was a 777 service and cancelled at 04:00 hrs.
BA has 329 departures out of 652.
Morning Operational Update
Landing RWY: 27L
Airborne holding (mins): 6
Departure RWY: 27R
TSAT delay average (mins): 0
Network: EGLL 40/60 0540-0800, 45/60 0800-1200. 68 Regulations across Europe.
EBBR (Brussels) Arrivals regulated due to weather (low visibility) - Moderate delays.
EDDF (Frankfurt) Arrivals regulated due to weather (fog) - Moderate to high delays.
LFEE (Reims) Bale Mulhause approach sector (BM) regulated due to ATC capacity - Moderate to high delays.
LSAG (Geneva) GL57 sector regulated due to ATC Equipment - Moderate to high delays.
LECV (Valencia) Several sector regulated due to Weather (Flooding) - High delays.
Weather: A dry and overcast morning with a low chance of clear spells allowing LVP or VIS2 conditions until 08Z. Predominantly cloudy though a few sunny spells may come through at times.
BA404 TLV = OPEN
BA281 LAX
I think that LAX cancellation is lack of crew, but I don't know for certain. It was a 777 service and cancelled at 04:00 hrs.
BA has 329 departures out of 652.
Morning Operational Update
Landing RWY: 27L
Airborne holding (mins): 6
Departure RWY: 27R
TSAT delay average (mins): 0
Network: EGLL 40/60 0540-0800, 45/60 0800-1200. 68 Regulations across Europe.
EBBR (Brussels) Arrivals regulated due to weather (low visibility) - Moderate delays.
EDDF (Frankfurt) Arrivals regulated due to weather (fog) - Moderate to high delays.
LFEE (Reims) Bale Mulhause approach sector (BM) regulated due to ATC capacity - Moderate to high delays.
LSAG (Geneva) GL57 sector regulated due to ATC Equipment - Moderate to high delays.
LECV (Valencia) Several sector regulated due to Weather (Flooding) - High delays.
Weather: A dry and overcast morning with a low chance of clear spells allowing LVP or VIS2 conditions until 08Z. Predominantly cloudy though a few sunny spells may come through at times.
Oct 30, 2024 | 2:04 pm
#3656
Join Date: Sep 2024
Posts: 8
Thank you again.
ive had a second reply from BA which I’m going to paste below.
i assume it’s still worth going to CEDR; BA have said a lot there but can’t give any hard evidence
“As your flight was cancelled due to operational reasons, it means you’re not eligible for compensation.
Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 and The Air Passenger Rights and Air Travel Organisers’ Licencing (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 states a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances, that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. This means you’re not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your cancelled flight.
The information we have provided in rejecting your claim has been taken from our Operations Control Manager's daily log. We consider this to be proof of the circumstances surrounding the cancellation of your flight. We do not provide copies of these to our passengers as these documents, and our maintenance records, contain sensitive business information.”
ive had a second reply from BA which I’m going to paste below.
i assume it’s still worth going to CEDR; BA have said a lot there but can’t give any hard evidence
“As your flight was cancelled due to operational reasons, it means you’re not eligible for compensation.
Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 and The Air Passenger Rights and Air Travel Organisers’ Licencing (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 states a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances, that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. This means you’re not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your cancelled flight.
The information we have provided in rejecting your claim has been taken from our Operations Control Manager's daily log. We consider this to be proof of the circumstances surrounding the cancellation of your flight. We do not provide copies of these to our passengers as these documents, and our maintenance records, contain sensitive business information.”
6 weeks after my last communication from BA and just a week before the 8 week deadline for me to escalate to CEDR, BA have responded today with a complete 180 and have offered compensation.
They have offered 350 cash or a 475 voucher (an aside, does anyone know the validity of vouchers in this case?)
Per their own website and the regulations, I am entitled to compensation of €600/520.
I assume there is no issue with me rejecting the compensation and asking for the amount I am actually entitled to?
The only concern I had initially was that my cancellation and new booking arrived earlier so I wasn't technically 'late' to my destination; I've been told elsewhere that this still counts as a delay?
Thanks,
Last edited by samiito97; Oct 30, 2024 at 2:13 pm
Oct 30, 2024 | 3:00 pm
#3657
Original Poster
Moderator: Iberia Club, Airport Lounges and Ambassador: The British Airways Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 71,029
The correct thread for this discussion is the main EC261 thread. It is a bit difficult to tell since in your first post you gave flight numbers for IAD - LHR but in the text you said you were travelling LHR to IAD. If what I think happened was that you left earlier than expected and thus arrived early, then there is a logic to paying 260, potentially, since usually you have to be 4 hours late to get 520 or 600€ (if you started from inside the EU). There is the Azurair case, explained in post 8 to complicated matters. If you could give the exact scheduled arrival time and the exact time you arrived then I can give better advice. If it is an Azurair case then you will need to go to CEDR, but they don't always agree to Azurair, MCOL probably would be a surer bet if Azurair is involved.
Oct 30, 2024 | 3:51 pm
#3658
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: LON
Programs: BA, TK, EK
Posts: 949
Looks like AMM has been pulled as far as the end of November.
Presume this is down to either airspace closures or something in the risk profile rather than a commercial decision due to a shortage of aircraft etc.
Presume this is down to either airspace closures or something in the risk profile rather than a commercial decision due to a shortage of aircraft etc.
Oct 30, 2024 | 4:48 pm
#3659
Join Date: Oct 2024
Programs: AA life Gold, AF Silver, Marriott life Gold, Amex Plat.
Posts: 2
Im affected by this BA281 cancellation. This flight is not a 787 but a 777-200.
Oct 30, 2024 | 5:02 pm
#3660
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: London
Programs: BAC Gold
Posts: 3,692
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...ispreloading=1
Last edited by golfmad; Oct 31, 2024 at 2:28 am Reason: Modified text after moving posts to this thread to avoid circular reference