Aug 3, 2016, 4:47 am
Last edit by: oliver2002
An Emirates Airlines Boeing 777-300, registration A6-EMW performing flight UAE521/EK521 from Thiruvananthapuram (India) VOTV to Dubai (United Arab Emirates) OMDB with 275 people on board, was on final approach to Dubai's runway 12L at 12:41L (08:41Z) but attempted to go around from low height. The aircraft however did not climb, but after retracting the gear touched down on the runway and burst into flames. Passengers are being reported evacuated and safe. The aircraft burned down completely.
Source: AVHerald
http://avherald.com/h?article=49c12302&opt=0
Source: AVHerald
http://avherald.com/h?article=49c12302&opt=0
Emirates 777 (EK521) crash landing at DXB
Aug 3, 2016 | 12:57 pm
#121
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 100
I think the forensics here (retrieved data and first-person interviews of crew and passengers) will yield a rather quick answer to my most vexing question:
1.) The gear never came down
2.) The gear came down but the crew retracted it because of a TOGA...albeit prematurely
3.) The gear was down but collapsed due to a hard (wind-shear) bounce.
#1 & #2 point to the crew, IMO; #3 points to something else.
1.) The gear never came down
2.) The gear came down but the crew retracted it because of a TOGA...albeit prematurely
3.) The gear was down but collapsed due to a hard (wind-shear) bounce.
#1 & #2 point to the crew, IMO; #3 points to something else.
Aug 3, 2016 | 12:57 pm
#122
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At least one female ?crew member shouting out instructions in the language of most of the pax(malayalam) plus the voice of another male and female crew member instructing pax to jump and slide.
One of the passengers was trying to collect his laptop :-(
However this was before the crew started saying jump and slide
One of the passengers was trying to collect his laptop :-(
However this was before the crew started saying jump and slide
Last edited by ukdoctor; Aug 3, 2016 at 1:09 pm
Aug 3, 2016 | 1:17 pm
#124
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<redacted by moderator>
I agree that its not a good idea to film it as it hinders the evacuation .
On the other hand it might help to understand human behavior in such circumstances and improve aircraft design to prevent these in the future.
I know that aircraft design/evacuation etc is done with volunteers in simulated scenarios. However the real thing is quite different from personal experience in real emergencies .
In medicine we do simulations all the time for learning. However when its someone's life on the line instead of a mannequin people respond in a different manner.
I wonder if relatively simple design modifications like auto locking of the overhead bins in case of similar events may help???
I agree that its not a good idea to film it as it hinders the evacuation .
On the other hand it might help to understand human behavior in such circumstances and improve aircraft design to prevent these in the future.
I know that aircraft design/evacuation etc is done with volunteers in simulated scenarios. However the real thing is quite different from personal experience in real emergencies .
In medicine we do simulations all the time for learning. However when its someone's life on the line instead of a mannequin people respond in a different manner.
I wonder if relatively simple design modifications like auto locking of the overhead bins in case of similar events may help???
Last edited by TWA884; Aug 3, 2016 at 1:53 pm Reason: Redacted quote of deleted comment
Aug 3, 2016 | 1:21 pm
#125
Join Date: Nov 2012
Programs: BAEC silver
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I agree that its not a good idea to film it as it hinders the evacuation .
On the other hand it might help to understand human behavior in such circumstances and improve aircraft design to prevent these in the future.
I know that aircraft design/evacuation etc is done with volunteers in simulated scenarios. However the real thing is quite different from personal experience in real emergencies .
In medicine we do simulations all the time for learning. However when its someone's life on the line instead of a mannequin people respond in a different manner.
I wonder if relatively simple design modifications like auto locking of the overhead bins in case of similar events may help???
On the other hand it might help to understand human behavior in such circumstances and improve aircraft design to prevent these in the future.
I know that aircraft design/evacuation etc is done with volunteers in simulated scenarios. However the real thing is quite different from personal experience in real emergencies .
In medicine we do simulations all the time for learning. However when its someone's life on the line instead of a mannequin people respond in a different manner.
I wonder if relatively simple design modifications like auto locking of the overhead bins in case of similar events may help???
That would hinder access to fight any fire in overhead bins that may the mechanism of an evacuation. Plus surely such locks would have to be electric, and killing the power during an evacuation would merely unlock the bins. A no win situation either way.
Aug 3, 2016 | 1:22 pm
#126
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There might be a passenger who urgently needs some special medication or medical device in the overhead bin.
Aug 3, 2016 | 1:22 pm
#127
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
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I think the forensics here (retrieved data and first-person interviews of crew and passengers) will yield a rather quick answer to my most vexing question:
1.) The gear never came down
2.) The gear came down but the crew retracted it because of a TOGA...albeit prematurely
3.) The gear was down but collapsed due to a hard (wind-shear) bounce.
#1 & #2 point to the crew, IMO; #3 points to something else.
1.) The gear never came down
2.) The gear came down but the crew retracted it because of a TOGA...albeit prematurely
3.) The gear was down but collapsed due to a hard (wind-shear) bounce.
#1 & #2 point to the crew, IMO; #3 points to something else.
They bounced, tried to go around, retracted the gear, but then sank back onto the runway. Pure guesswork though.
Aug 3, 2016 | 1:24 pm
#128
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I agree that its not a good idea to film it as it hinders the evacuation .
On the other hand it might help to understand human behavior in such circumstances and improve aircraft design to prevent these in the future.
I know that aircraft design/evacuation etc is done with volunteers in simulated scenarios. However the real thing is quite different from personal experience in real emergencies .
In medicine we do simulations all the time for learning. However when its someone's life on the line instead of a mannequin people respond in a different manner.
I wonder if relatively simple design modifications like auto locking of the overhead bins in case of similar events may help???
On the other hand it might help to understand human behavior in such circumstances and improve aircraft design to prevent these in the future.
I know that aircraft design/evacuation etc is done with volunteers in simulated scenarios. However the real thing is quite different from personal experience in real emergencies .
In medicine we do simulations all the time for learning. However when its someone's life on the line instead of a mannequin people respond in a different manner.
I wonder if relatively simple design modifications like auto locking of the overhead bins in case of similar events may help???
I agree an auto lock on the overhead bins would be a great idea ... the only downside is the added weight of the system , would airlines stomach the cost of that ?
Aug 3, 2016 | 1:27 pm
#129
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
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One of these days we'll see 100 people get off a burning plane (50 with their bags), whilst the other 200 are killed.
Aug 3, 2016 | 1:30 pm
#130
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Don't know about EK, however on the few occasions that I was called to assist a sick passenger on an aircraft , the medical equipmemt was in a separate bin (I.e no luggage stowed in the same bin)
Aug 3, 2016 | 1:55 pm
#131
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No. Believe it or not, that has been considered. The difficulty in implementing such a system is that passengers intent on retrieving possessions would try to "unjam" the mechanism: not a helpful scenario.
Aug 3, 2016 | 1:59 pm
#132
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<redacted quote of deleted post>
<redacted by moderator> The video from inside the plane and the runway was just... shocking.
<redacted by moderator> But we have seen people evacuate with rollaboards in other cases, with more experienced pax. Search my post history; pretty sure I have decried it a few times in the last few years.
One of these days someone (or many) will get hurt or killed because of this.
Perhaps the authorities should confiscate the "saved" carry-ons from the escaped passengers as "evidence" and then burn them in a televised ceremony. :/
<redacted by moderator> The video from inside the plane and the runway was just... shocking.
<redacted by moderator> But we have seen people evacuate with rollaboards in other cases, with more experienced pax. Search my post history; pretty sure I have decried it a few times in the last few years.
One of these days someone (or many) will get hurt or killed because of this.
Perhaps the authorities should confiscate the "saved" carry-ons from the escaped passengers as "evidence" and then burn them in a televised ceremony. :/
Last edited by TWA884; Aug 3, 2016 at 2:14 pm Reason: Redacted quote of deleted post and inappropriate remarks
Aug 3, 2016 | 2:07 pm
#133
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Aug 3, 2016 | 3:08 pm
#134
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Assuming rational decision-making by people who were just involved in a plane crash is a completely irrational assumption to make.
If you lock the overhead bins people will spend time trying to unlock it. If you try and stop someone from bringing their bag they are likely to just lash out at you for getting in their way in survival mode. In fight or flight mode with adrenaline pumping you don't hear someone yelling at you to stop or yelling at you to let it go - you look out for yourself and your own survival. Not because you are a bad person but because it's a natural response - you can say 1000 times you would act differently but you don't really know until you actually are in that situation.
If you lock the overhead bins people will spend time trying to unlock it. If you try and stop someone from bringing their bag they are likely to just lash out at you for getting in their way in survival mode. In fight or flight mode with adrenaline pumping you don't hear someone yelling at you to stop or yelling at you to let it go - you look out for yourself and your own survival. Not because you are a bad person but because it's a natural response - you can say 1000 times you would act differently but you don't really know until you actually are in that situation.
Aug 3, 2016 | 3:30 pm
#135
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Emirates Accident: Pilot is well-experienced UAE national: Ahmed
http://www.emirates247.com/news/emir...08-03-1.637854
There are A320, and 737 pilots with more than 7000 hours flying experience. Is it me, or shouldn't pilots flying some of the largest air frames in the world have more experience?
http://www.emirates247.com/news/emir...08-03-1.637854
There are A320, and 737 pilots with more than 7000 hours flying experience. Is it me, or shouldn't pilots flying some of the largest air frames in the world have more experience?