Fronter begins service ILG - Wilmington, Delaware 1 Jul 2013
#46


Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 534
They're not so far off with the 25 minute quote. Obviously that's not so during rush hour but most flights don't arrive during the rush. You'd use 495 to get to the Pennsylvania line and that moves along 70 mph. Probably more like 35 minutes non-rush hours. You could certainly get from ILG to PHL in 25 minutes non-rush.
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,236
They're not so far off with the 25 minute quote. Obviously that's not so during rush hour but most flights don't arrive during the rush. You'd use 495 to get to the Pennsylvania line and that moves along 70 mph. Probably more like 35 minutes non-rush hours. You could certainly get from ILG to PHL in 25 minutes non-rush.
It is an unpredictable drive, though. I'd say an hour, door-to-door, is about the best you'd likely do in the real world, except perhaps at 3 am when there's no construction work going on.
#48


Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 534
Check out google maps. You're not getting from ILG to "downtown Philadelphia" in 25 minutes. It's almost 40 miles. You'd need a race car and a closed course grand prix.
It is an unpredictable drive, though. I'd say an hour, door-to-door, is about the best you'd likely do in the real world, except perhaps at 3 am when there's no construction work going on.
It is an unpredictable drive, though. I'd say an hour, door-to-door, is about the best you'd likely do in the real world, except perhaps at 3 am when there's no construction work going on.
#49
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 5
First post... people from Horsham drive to acy. Pay tolls. The whole area knows tax free shopping and they know its quick to access. An airline with free parking and tax free shopping 20 mins from phl is no mystery. Delaware is a regional "deal" and the airport is the last exit on the new jersey turnpike. Frontier made a golden deal on this.. driving distance from wash half phila and NYC metros.
#51
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,120
I agree with iahphx that it's inaccurate. It's not 25 mins from downtown Philly to ILG.
If the distance from No. Delaware was that close to Philly, you'd think IKEA would have gone there over So. Philly, and So. NJ and SE PA would struggle with the sales tax free proximity of the Christiana area being so close. But in reality, there is a good 45 minute - one hour gap in the regions. Arbitron considers Wilmington, DE it's own FM market (market 79) compared to Philly (market 7).
But that website wasn't created by Frontier, and anyways, people will still come to ILG at the 45min-one hour range. But, it's still not 25 minutes.
--
If ILG becomes successful, would ILG be able to support say even WN? Worse case scenario for Frontier: Southwest do something cheeky and move some of it's flights from PHL to ILG. Southwest failed in PHL capturing the local business market over US. But, the market is still large, so Southwest might still want the volume traffic atleast to be connected to it, and markets like HOU atleast having a link to the region.
Atleast with HOU, Southwest will link DCA, BWI, PIT, EWR, LGA, BOS to HOU, but the Delaware Valley is a gaping hole for nonstop service, as WN couldnt compete head on with US and UA. If the landing fees are lower and WN can sell lower fares, maybe it'd try ILG-HOU and ILG-ATL and some Florida (maybe split between PHL/ILG), while keeping PHL-MDW/DEN/BNA/STL from PHL. Esp. as HOU gets Mexic/intl' service flights, it'd be popular for people drive and park at ILG for free, fly via HOU to Cancun or wherever.
I realize the risk is low as WN will just figure people will use BWI, but just a thought that Frontier might build ILG on service like ILG-IAH, only for Southwest to steal it.
If the distance from No. Delaware was that close to Philly, you'd think IKEA would have gone there over So. Philly, and So. NJ and SE PA would struggle with the sales tax free proximity of the Christiana area being so close. But in reality, there is a good 45 minute - one hour gap in the regions. Arbitron considers Wilmington, DE it's own FM market (market 79) compared to Philly (market 7).
But that website wasn't created by Frontier, and anyways, people will still come to ILG at the 45min-one hour range. But, it's still not 25 minutes.
--
If ILG becomes successful, would ILG be able to support say even WN? Worse case scenario for Frontier: Southwest do something cheeky and move some of it's flights from PHL to ILG. Southwest failed in PHL capturing the local business market over US. But, the market is still large, so Southwest might still want the volume traffic atleast to be connected to it, and markets like HOU atleast having a link to the region.
Atleast with HOU, Southwest will link DCA, BWI, PIT, EWR, LGA, BOS to HOU, but the Delaware Valley is a gaping hole for nonstop service, as WN couldnt compete head on with US and UA. If the landing fees are lower and WN can sell lower fares, maybe it'd try ILG-HOU and ILG-ATL and some Florida (maybe split between PHL/ILG), while keeping PHL-MDW/DEN/BNA/STL from PHL. Esp. as HOU gets Mexic/intl' service flights, it'd be popular for people drive and park at ILG for free, fly via HOU to Cancun or wherever.
I realize the risk is low as WN will just figure people will use BWI, but just a thought that Frontier might build ILG on service like ILG-IAH, only for Southwest to steal it.
Last edited by rtalk25; May 14, 2013 at 10:09 am
#52

Join Date: May 2004
Location: HYI/AUS/SAT originally TTN/EWR/PHL
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards, Jetblue TrueBlue, American Advantage
Posts: 1,204
I agree with iahphx that it's inaccurate. It's not 25 mins from downtown Philly to ILG.
If the distance from No. Delaware was that close to Philly, you'd think IKEA would have gone there over So. Philly, and So. NJ and SE PA would struggle with the sales tax free proximity of the Christiana area being so close. But in reality, there is a good 45 minute - one hour gap in the regions. Arbitron considers Wilmington, DE it's own FM market (market 79) compared to Philly (market 7).
But that website wasn't created by Frontier, and anyways, people will still come to ILG at the 45min-one hour range. But, it's still not 25 minutes.
--
If ILG becomes successful, would ILG be able to support say even WN? Worse case scenario for Frontier: Southwest do something cheeky and move some of it's flights from PHL to ILG. Southwest failed in PHL capturing the local business market over US. But, the market is still large, so Southwest might still want the volume traffic atleast to be connected to it, and markets like HOU atleast having a link to the region.
Atleast with HOU, Southwest will link DCA, BWI, PIT, EWR, LGA, BOS to HOU, but the Delaware Valley is a gaping hole for nonstop service, as WN couldnt compete head on with US and UA. If the landing fees are lower and WN can sell lower fares, maybe it'd try ILG-HOU and ILG-ATL and some Florida (maybe split between PHL/ILG), while keeping PHL-MDW/DEN/BNA/STL from PHL. Esp. as HOU gets Mexic/intl' service flights, it'd be popular for people drive and park at ILG for free, fly via HOU to Cancun or wherever.
I realize the risk is low as WN will just figure people will use BWI, but just a thought that Frontier might build ILG on service like ILG-IAH, only for Southwest to steal it.
If the distance from No. Delaware was that close to Philly, you'd think IKEA would have gone there over So. Philly, and So. NJ and SE PA would struggle with the sales tax free proximity of the Christiana area being so close. But in reality, there is a good 45 minute - one hour gap in the regions. Arbitron considers Wilmington, DE it's own FM market (market 79) compared to Philly (market 7).
But that website wasn't created by Frontier, and anyways, people will still come to ILG at the 45min-one hour range. But, it's still not 25 minutes.
--
If ILG becomes successful, would ILG be able to support say even WN? Worse case scenario for Frontier: Southwest do something cheeky and move some of it's flights from PHL to ILG. Southwest failed in PHL capturing the local business market over US. But, the market is still large, so Southwest might still want the volume traffic atleast to be connected to it, and markets like HOU atleast having a link to the region.
Atleast with HOU, Southwest will link DCA, BWI, PIT, EWR, LGA, BOS to HOU, but the Delaware Valley is a gaping hole for nonstop service, as WN couldnt compete head on with US and UA. If the landing fees are lower and WN can sell lower fares, maybe it'd try ILG-HOU and ILG-ATL and some Florida (maybe split between PHL/ILG), while keeping PHL-MDW/DEN/BNA/STL from PHL. Esp. as HOU gets Mexic/intl' service flights, it'd be popular for people drive and park at ILG for free, fly via HOU to Cancun or wherever.
I realize the risk is low as WN will just figure people will use BWI, but just a thought that Frontier might build ILG on service like ILG-IAH, only for Southwest to steal it.
#53
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: somewhere
Posts: 1,381
Never been to TTN, but I doubt the popularity of SW would handle the space they have available inside the terminal and in parking spaces. There are probably more people in the area that luv SW and are loyal to them. They would need maybe an extra gate and more parking than the new parking lot would handle! And would need more bathrooms!
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,236
I'm really not expecting anyone else to enter the ILG market anytime soon. Of course, you never know.
The most likely new low fare entrant in the market is JetBlue. They're starting service from PHL to BOS, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them try some Florida routes from PHL, especially since WN seems to be reducing some of that service.
Frontier's service from ILG is so limited and so eccentric that they should have the airport to themselves for quite some time -- if they can make a go of it at all. If we started seeing 2x daily service to some markets, a response would become more likely.
The most likely new low fare entrant in the market is JetBlue. They're starting service from PHL to BOS, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them try some Florida routes from PHL, especially since WN seems to be reducing some of that service.
Frontier's service from ILG is so limited and so eccentric that they should have the airport to themselves for quite some time -- if they can make a go of it at all. If we started seeing 2x daily service to some markets, a response would become more likely.
#55
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: new zealand
Posts: 530
[QUOTE=iahphx;20750231Frontier's service from ILG is so limited and so eccentric that they should have the airport to themselves for quite some time -- if they can make a go of it at all. If we started seeing 2x daily service to some markets, a response would become more likely.[/QUOTE]
I would fall over in shock if Frontier started 2 x daily service to anywhere from ILG or from TTN.
Limited frequency, however eccentric, is one of the cores of the model.
I would fall over in shock if Frontier started 2 x daily service to anywhere from ILG or from TTN.
Limited frequency, however eccentric, is one of the cores of the model.
#56
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: United States
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Amtrak
Posts: 4,647
What's more relevant is not the time to downtown Philly (seriously, do they think business travelers and condo-dwellers want to fly into ILG instead of PHL in order to get to center city Philadelphia???) it's the time to get to suburban Delaware and Chester counties. Shoot, ILG is actually closer to Lancaster and Reading, PA than PHL airport is. THAT's where ILG should throw some marketing cash. I don't think someone in center city Philly who can hop on a SEPTA train for $7 and be at the airport in 30 minutes is really going to mess with getting to an airport south of Wilmington.
#57
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: new zealand
Posts: 530
But I wouldn't imagine it will happen until next spring, if at all, and I think it will be a while before they go even 1 x daily on most of the routes.
Equally, I think it is possible they may go daily ILG-DEN but again, not until next summer, and probably only for the summer.
#58
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,120
What's more relevant is not the time to downtown Philly (seriously, do they think business travelers and condo-dwellers want to fly into ILG instead of PHL in order to get to center city Philadelphia???) it's the time to get to suburban Delaware and Chester counties. Shoot, ILG is actually closer to Lancaster and Reading, PA than PHL airport is. THAT's where ILG should throw some marketing cash. I don't think someone in center city Philly who can hop on a SEPTA train for $7 and be at the airport in 30 minutes is really going to mess with getting to an airport south of Wilmington.
If they wanted Berks Co./Reading support, Frontier shouldn't have dropped ABE. ABE was within 50 miles from Reading.
For ILG, just general Philly area advertising is fine, couple it with TTN. If they did Northeast MD like Harford and Baltimore Co., it would be interesting but I can't see it worthwhile.
Last edited by rtalk25; May 15, 2013 at 12:00 pm
#59

Join Date: May 2004
Location: HYI/AUS/SAT originally TTN/EWR/PHL
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards, Jetblue TrueBlue, American Advantage
Posts: 1,204
Well since pictures of New Castle County Airport are so elusive, I decieded to go take some myself.
Outside the terminal

What will eventually become Frontier's ticket counter


Banner on the outside of the door to the arrivals area

Sorry I couldn't get more than that, terminal isn't in much use and is therefore locked up in most places.
I hope it cleans up nice, because ILG makes TTN look like JFK T5.
Outside the terminal

What will eventually become Frontier's ticket counter


Banner on the outside of the door to the arrivals area

Sorry I couldn't get more than that, terminal isn't in much use and is therefore locked up in most places.
I hope it cleans up nice, because ILG makes TTN look like JFK T5.
#60
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,236
Frankly, the best under-served secondary markets for ILG pax are those in downstate Delaware. These folks, who get more numerous every year, have lousy distant alternatives (BWI or PHL). Delaware route 1 can get them to ILG pretty quickly. Whether there's enough folks to market to them, I don't know.
I plan to be at ILG in early July shortly after service begins, so I can report on what the scene looks like.


