St Petersberg to Moscow
Aug 26, 2004, 3:04 am
#16
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MOW
Programs: KLM Flying Dutchman forever, bmi Diamond Club (is there a theme here?), LH, BA, EK, DL nobody
Posts: 1,877
Has it ever happened to you or anyone you know?
I travel the route about monthly (my gf is originally from StPete so we go often to see her family or friends) and a lot of people here at the office are from StPete and go home every weekend - and nothing's ever gone wrong to me nor to anyone I know.
I travel the route about monthly (my gf is originally from StPete so we go often to see her family or friends) and a lot of people here at the office are from StPete and go home every weekend - and nothing's ever gone wrong to me nor to anyone I know.
Aug 26, 2004, 4:40 pm
#17
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London, UK
Programs: NH Super Flyer (*G), Eurostar Carte Blanche, IHG Platinum, Hilton Gold, Accor ALL Gold
Posts: 912
It's been a while since I lived in St. P, but the overnight trains used to be notorious for thieves targetting tourists. The conductors (provodniki) were known to occasionally sell the emergency keys to criminals and tell them where the foreign tourists were sleeping. I'm certainly not suggesting that crime was ubiquitous and I'd be happy to hear that things had got better recently.
Aug 27, 2004, 12:47 am
#18
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MOW
Programs: KLM Flying Dutchman forever, bmi Diamond Club (is there a theme here?), LH, BA, EK, DL nobody
Posts: 1,877
Originally Posted by mcg1000
I'm certainly not suggesting that crime was ubiquitous and I'd be happy to hear that things had got better recently.
And there's this funny contraption that lets you close the door from the inside which is now ubiquitous on the night train?. Well, the only train I us? - the one that leaves Moscow at 0:43 - always has it in their first class cars.
Last edited by apoivre; Aug 28, 2004 at 5:50 am
Aug 27, 2004, 6:18 am
#19
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: DC metro
Programs: PC Platinum Ambassador, Marriott Gold Elite, UA 2P, Starwood Gold, Avis First, Bolt Bus $1 Rider
Posts: 1,175
Originally Posted by smumbo123
I believe Train 159A leaves St Petersberg at 16:00 and reaches Moscow at 21:21 - which may fit what you are looking for - here is a URL where I found this info
http://www.nevsky88.com/Transportati...in/default.asp
http://www.nevsky88.com/Transportati...in/default.asp
i start my journey at 6:25 tonight
will take that fast train on sept 1
Aug 28, 2004, 6:57 am
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: south of WAS DC
Posts: 10,131
I have only taken this trip once LED-MOW on a night train.
I brought a bicycle chain lock, and toilet paper.
We had to buy sheets for our first class cabin. Cost under a dollar US.
The door to the cabin had a huge(3" x 18" chrome plated) latch on the inside on a thick door. It would have held off a Mongol horde. No key.
The toilet paper came in handy.
I think we were supposed to get tea in the morning, but did not.
I brought a bicycle chain lock, and toilet paper.
We had to buy sheets for our first class cabin. Cost under a dollar US.
The door to the cabin had a huge(3" x 18" chrome plated) latch on the inside on a thick door. It would have held off a Mongol horde. No key.
The toilet paper came in handy.
I think we were supposed to get tea in the morning, but did not.
Aug 28, 2004, 12:11 pm
#21
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 143
Recently came across this site re: Saint Petersburg-Moscow Train Timetables and Schedules. Hope it maybe helpful. It also has a few pictures ot the interior of the trains, as good as they are, or are not. http://www.nevsky88.com/Transportati...in/default.asp
Sep 6, 2004, 6:55 pm
#22
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: DC metro
Programs: PC Platinum Ambassador, Marriott Gold Elite, UA 2P, Starwood Gold, Avis First, Bolt Bus $1 Rider
Posts: 1,175
i took the 4pm fast train last wednesday afternoon
i went with a russian speaking friend and the price was 1258 roubles
without food
about $44
for business class
now here is the russian system
there are 3 classes
first
business
coach
i was late to the station and literally boarded the train as it was pulling out
i showed my ticket and they told me to walk to the front of the train
i first walked thru the coach class
4 to a room
with seats that convert to beds
i then walked to first class
and i was stopped
the ticket taker took a look at my ticket and said
i could keep walking towards the front of the train for the business class
or for 500 roubles i could sit in first class
which is like aircraft seating
so i sat in first class
i didnt ask for a reciept
as i'm sure the 500 was split between the women working that section
so the best deal may be to buy the cheapest 4 to a room coach ticket
and then upgrade with the people on the train
i went with a russian speaking friend and the price was 1258 roubles
without food
about $44
for business class
now here is the russian system
there are 3 classes
first
business
coach
i was late to the station and literally boarded the train as it was pulling out
i showed my ticket and they told me to walk to the front of the train
i first walked thru the coach class
4 to a room
with seats that convert to beds
i then walked to first class
and i was stopped
the ticket taker took a look at my ticket and said
i could keep walking towards the front of the train for the business class
or for 500 roubles i could sit in first class
which is like aircraft seating
so i sat in first class
i didnt ask for a reciept
as i'm sure the 500 was split between the women working that section
so the best deal may be to buy the cheapest 4 to a room coach ticket
and then upgrade with the people on the train
Oct 13, 2004, 11:47 am
#23
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,476
We made the journey a few weeks ago, overnight from St Pete to Moscow, and afternoon coming back.
The cars, and locomotives, are fairly new, say 1980s (not much rolling stock has been built in Russia since Perestroika but the best ones are on this route) but the same design was done for years. They are incredibly robust and run nice and smoothly, even the ones taken along at 200 km/h (125 mph) on the Aurora express. Some of the special cars, eg the restaurant cars, were built in the German Democratic Republic. All the Soviet passenger train electric locomotives were built in Czechoslovakia by Skoda, there have been no new ones since socialism fell apart. But they seem to know about good maintenance, and they are kept nice and clean.
The overnight train is fun. If there are two of you it is cheaper to reserve a compartment for 4 (this is the standard size) just for yourself than have one of the "first class" ones for two. However you need a Russian speaker to explain this sort of non-standard requirement to the ticket office. There is tea served by the attendant from an elaborate old samovar tea maker at the end of the car (in lovely elaborate glasses with "silver" holders), and bedding is provided that you have to make up yourself. Both of these services are optional and charged for (a small amount) so if you don't get them you have probably been misunderstood.
The Russians are still concerned about security in the trains. The lower beds lift up and you can put your luggage, money, watch etc under there and no one will be able to get it while you are sleeping. Violent theft is unknown but petty theft still happens on the train. Do not leave your luggage unattended when going to the restaurant car.
There is a nice restaurant car in the middle of each train, day and night, expensive for Russia but cheap by Western standards. Beautiful decoration, little lamps on the tables, mixed staff, most menu items (apart from the alcohol) not available. We were amused the at 01.00 in the morning all the car attendants suddenly locked their cars, went there, and were served plates of pelmeni, beetroot and potatoes ! They consistently have no cream for the coffee. However, when ordering a fruit dish, and (reluctantly) black coffee, the fruit came with a whole heap of cream on it. But "we have no cream for the coffee". Some Soviet traditions of service die hard.
A railway engineer would be impressed by the immaculate standard of the track and the large amount of very up-to-date track maintenance vehicles around. Certainly up to German/Swiss standards, and puts US rail track to shame. In contrast the station buildings are mostly shabby, especially the wayside ones, although an effort is obviously made with the main Moscow and St Pete stations.
There are plenty of overnight trains, about 5 - 8 per night each way, all leaving between 10 pm and midnight, and there's not much difference between them. The daytime trains are much more sparse, the Aurora (the high speed afternoon one) only running on certain days. Our one, Saturday afternoon, was 16 cars and all seats taken. They are laid out like US coach trains. Russian railway cars are larger than those in western Europe, and much larger than those in Britain, so there is lots of space. In local city trains the seats are 3 + 3, with a broad aisle.
Toilets are basic, there always seemed to be water leaks from above but there's no real point to flushing it, as underneath you the poo just falls straight onto the tracks you can see rushing by directly underneath ! Glad I'm not a track maintenance worker.
Local trains in Russia are filled with vendors selling all sort of "grey market" goods; cans of drink, magazines, foods, fruits, ice creams taken on in big insulated boxes, drawing office supplies .... you must think I have made that last one up, but it's true, it happened on a suburban train from St Petersburg to Pushkin. I couldn't believe it. All vendors are incredibly polite and will not hassle you, they all start with a little speech from the back, then make their way up. Then gypsy children will come on with an accordian and play Georgian music and dance up and down the car. But you get none of this on the express trains, although there are some vendors of these things come to the doors at the intermediate stops.
There's not much to see on the trip, a good reason for taking the overnight train. The countryside is flat throughout, hardly a hill, several big rivers, mostly forest with a bit of farming. Apart from the river bridges it must have been easy country to build the railway through. Tradition has it that the Czar at the time put his sword on the map, ran a pencil along it, and said "that is the route". There are one or two significant bends which tradition then says are where the Czar's fingers were holding the sword ! There are few towns along the way. Tvir is probably the largest (infamous as the centre of the Soviet ICBM network, though you see nothing of any militaru installations from the train). The railway is busy by day, and even busier by night when trains pass going the other way every few minutes. For both passenger and freight it is the only mass market long distance option in Russia.
On departure, instead of the blowing of whistles in Britain, or the "all aboard" calls of the USA, martial music is played loudly over the station PA from 1 minute before departure until the train pulls out. The timekeeping was immaculate. Our train left St Pete at 11 pm and was due in Moscow at 7 am. Both times were maintained to the second ! Likewise the return on the Aurora. It puts the railways of Britain to shame.
The cars, and locomotives, are fairly new, say 1980s (not much rolling stock has been built in Russia since Perestroika but the best ones are on this route) but the same design was done for years. They are incredibly robust and run nice and smoothly, even the ones taken along at 200 km/h (125 mph) on the Aurora express. Some of the special cars, eg the restaurant cars, were built in the German Democratic Republic. All the Soviet passenger train electric locomotives were built in Czechoslovakia by Skoda, there have been no new ones since socialism fell apart. But they seem to know about good maintenance, and they are kept nice and clean.
The overnight train is fun. If there are two of you it is cheaper to reserve a compartment for 4 (this is the standard size) just for yourself than have one of the "first class" ones for two. However you need a Russian speaker to explain this sort of non-standard requirement to the ticket office. There is tea served by the attendant from an elaborate old samovar tea maker at the end of the car (in lovely elaborate glasses with "silver" holders), and bedding is provided that you have to make up yourself. Both of these services are optional and charged for (a small amount) so if you don't get them you have probably been misunderstood.
The Russians are still concerned about security in the trains. The lower beds lift up and you can put your luggage, money, watch etc under there and no one will be able to get it while you are sleeping. Violent theft is unknown but petty theft still happens on the train. Do not leave your luggage unattended when going to the restaurant car.
There is a nice restaurant car in the middle of each train, day and night, expensive for Russia but cheap by Western standards. Beautiful decoration, little lamps on the tables, mixed staff, most menu items (apart from the alcohol) not available. We were amused the at 01.00 in the morning all the car attendants suddenly locked their cars, went there, and were served plates of pelmeni, beetroot and potatoes ! They consistently have no cream for the coffee. However, when ordering a fruit dish, and (reluctantly) black coffee, the fruit came with a whole heap of cream on it. But "we have no cream for the coffee". Some Soviet traditions of service die hard.
A railway engineer would be impressed by the immaculate standard of the track and the large amount of very up-to-date track maintenance vehicles around. Certainly up to German/Swiss standards, and puts US rail track to shame. In contrast the station buildings are mostly shabby, especially the wayside ones, although an effort is obviously made with the main Moscow and St Pete stations.
There are plenty of overnight trains, about 5 - 8 per night each way, all leaving between 10 pm and midnight, and there's not much difference between them. The daytime trains are much more sparse, the Aurora (the high speed afternoon one) only running on certain days. Our one, Saturday afternoon, was 16 cars and all seats taken. They are laid out like US coach trains. Russian railway cars are larger than those in western Europe, and much larger than those in Britain, so there is lots of space. In local city trains the seats are 3 + 3, with a broad aisle.
Toilets are basic, there always seemed to be water leaks from above but there's no real point to flushing it, as underneath you the poo just falls straight onto the tracks you can see rushing by directly underneath ! Glad I'm not a track maintenance worker.
Local trains in Russia are filled with vendors selling all sort of "grey market" goods; cans of drink, magazines, foods, fruits, ice creams taken on in big insulated boxes, drawing office supplies .... you must think I have made that last one up, but it's true, it happened on a suburban train from St Petersburg to Pushkin. I couldn't believe it. All vendors are incredibly polite and will not hassle you, they all start with a little speech from the back, then make their way up. Then gypsy children will come on with an accordian and play Georgian music and dance up and down the car. But you get none of this on the express trains, although there are some vendors of these things come to the doors at the intermediate stops.
There's not much to see on the trip, a good reason for taking the overnight train. The countryside is flat throughout, hardly a hill, several big rivers, mostly forest with a bit of farming. Apart from the river bridges it must have been easy country to build the railway through. Tradition has it that the Czar at the time put his sword on the map, ran a pencil along it, and said "that is the route". There are one or two significant bends which tradition then says are where the Czar's fingers were holding the sword ! There are few towns along the way. Tvir is probably the largest (infamous as the centre of the Soviet ICBM network, though you see nothing of any militaru installations from the train). The railway is busy by day, and even busier by night when trains pass going the other way every few minutes. For both passenger and freight it is the only mass market long distance option in Russia.
On departure, instead of the blowing of whistles in Britain, or the "all aboard" calls of the USA, martial music is played loudly over the station PA from 1 minute before departure until the train pulls out. The timekeeping was immaculate. Our train left St Pete at 11 pm and was due in Moscow at 7 am. Both times were maintained to the second ! Likewise the return on the Aurora. It puts the railways of Britain to shame.
Oct 14, 2004, 1:19 am
#24
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MOW
Programs: KLM Flying Dutchman forever, bmi Diamond Club (is there a theme here?), LH, BA, EK, DL nobody
Posts: 1,877
Originally Posted by WHBM
On departure, instead of the blowing of whistles in Britain, or the "all aboard" calls of the USA, martial music is played loudly over the station PA from 1 minute before departure until the train pulls out.
Excellent post, BTW. Thank you
Oct 23, 2004, 12:39 pm
#25
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6
St. Petersburg to Moscow via small towns and villages
I'm experimenting with the following itinerary:
St. Petersburg
Novgorod
Around Lake Ilmen - military monuments, German graveyards, WW2 fortifications
Staraya Russa - had an excellent war museum, may also be of interest to Dostoyevsky fans
Torzhok - beautiful churches
Staritsa - that's where my dacha is, and horse riding in the hills over the Volga is one of several things I can recommend to experience the "true" Russia
(Alternatively, can travel from Staritsa to Tver by boat or raft)
Rzhev - more military history
Volokolamsk - an example of successful small town
New Jerusalem - a huge monument to Russia declaring itself the center of Christian civilization
Mitino - perhaps the world's largest illegal software market, your chance to get back at Bill Gates
Moscow - you can get to the center via Kutuzovki, a street made for military parades...
Descriptions with pictures is taking shape at
http://www.russian-horse-rides.com/m...petersburg.htm
What do you think?
Write me to [email protected]
St. Petersburg
Novgorod
Around Lake Ilmen - military monuments, German graveyards, WW2 fortifications
Staraya Russa - had an excellent war museum, may also be of interest to Dostoyevsky fans
Torzhok - beautiful churches
Staritsa - that's where my dacha is, and horse riding in the hills over the Volga is one of several things I can recommend to experience the "true" Russia
(Alternatively, can travel from Staritsa to Tver by boat or raft)
Rzhev - more military history
Volokolamsk - an example of successful small town
New Jerusalem - a huge monument to Russia declaring itself the center of Christian civilization
Mitino - perhaps the world's largest illegal software market, your chance to get back at Bill Gates
Moscow - you can get to the center via Kutuzovki, a street made for military parades...
Descriptions with pictures is taking shape at
http://www.russian-horse-rides.com/m...petersburg.htm
What do you think?
Write me to [email protected]