I've seen at least one reference to TP being "next in trouble", but haven't seen or heard any details. Are they likely to be in serious trouble a couple of months from now?

Also, I couldn't find info on seat pitch for short-haul flights (<3hr). I assume economy is ~31" and Business class ~34", is that right? Is their A319 Business class really 3-3 as shown on their diagram? Or if it's 2-3 (like the BD flight I took earlier this year), are all five seats wider than economy seats, or only some?

Thanks!
andrew

Can't answer the first part regarding financial stability of TP - I also have flights with them on the 30th of November so I'm hoping they'll still be around!

Regarding the seating - I believe it is 2+3 in business class (convertible seats). Not sure about the pitch - but 34' is usually standard in C.

Their A310 aircraft, which are used for certain 'short-haul' flights such as to London offer a 43' pitch, their A340 are at 47'.

Cheers

WG

Thanks for the info. I'll be flying them Nov 3 and Nov 9, so hopefully that will be enough to keep them going until Nov 30!

I'm planning to fly FCO(Rome)-LIS-FAO and back, and they seem to be all A319s, at least according to itn.com

Flying in the back is tempting (unusual for me), only because the front cabin isn't that much better. But if Y seating is <31", I really don't want to do it!

BTW, TAP's site doesn't list FCO as a destination or for doing online bookings, I wrote to them about it a couple of months ago but never heard back.

andrew

I will be flying TAP Business in an A319 tomorrow. I'll let you know.

Great, thanks! What I couldn't figure out on my BD flight (where J was 2&3), was whether the three on the right had exactly the same elbowroom (seats same width) as economy, and only we on the left got wider seats (there was a narrow ~25cm wide non-seat between A and C). I realize they want convertible seating, but it does seem unfair if 60% of J seats are narrower than the other 40%.

andrew


[This message has been edited by Andrew Webber (edited 10-08-2001).]

Hard to believe... but... wait for it... the seats on the right of the cabin are roughly 1.5 to 2 inches wider than in economy (but somebody help me out here if I'm a little out!!)

Always better to reserve seats A or C in advance (pref. row 1, but if that's gone - any row).

Cheers

WG

HI, I have just completed a trip CPH-LIS-CPH with TP A319 in C and this is nothing worth writting about.
The configuration is 2+3 and make sure you get either an A or C seat. Do not sit on the first row, as no fold-out tables is NOT installed in the seats. The crew brings you a table to fasten to the seat... Just like the old days.

The service was OK - from CPH (evening flight 3hours and 30 min) I got a manu chart with a selection of two main course (fish/meat). It was OK. On the return - a morning flight - we got orange juice after take off - our breakfast: a yoghurt, an omelet and some fruit. About an hour before landing at CPH, we got two small sandwiches (didn't eat them though.)!!

Beware, I flew yesterday from Lisbon and it took me about 30 min just to get into the departure hall... You have to show Picture ID and a ticket (if you are travelling on E-ticket, make sure that you have an original copy of your receipt to show).

Have a nice flight

[This message has been edited by Christensen (edited 10-11-2001).]

Thank you for the experiences. I'll give this some more thought (the BD flight up front didn't seem like anything special, but then it didn't cost much as it was part of a Canada-Europe itinerary).

For some strange reason, all TP's really cheap fares disappeared at once (everything <U$500), which makes it a little harder to decide to fly in the back.

andrew

I have just completed a ZRH-LIS-ZRH trip in TAP "Navigator" (=C) Class in an A219 and I can confirm Christensen's observations in any point.

Let me add one more thing: the seat pitch is just the usual, all-class A32x standard.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Another question re: loads

I'm seriously looking at flying in economy on AC from Canada to Rome because there are between 8 and 20 blocks of three seats where the middle is empty and one of the aisles are empty too! (767 configured 2-3-2). While I like flying in Business Class, with that much elbow room in the back it becomes very hard to justify.

I finally found an application that claims to show seat maps for TP (Air Canada's Personal Ticket Office application). (I couldn't get itn, travelocity, or expedia to show them).

Looking at the dates I would want to fly TP, the planes are practically empty in the back! Is this likely to be accurate? The flights are FCO-LIS-FAO 3/11 and FAO-LIS-FCO on 9/11. Here's what I see:

Several questions come to mind. First, the A319 LIS-FAO has more rows than the A319 FAO-LIS; do they have different configurations?

Second, when I specify front-cabin, the LIS-FAO-LIS segments insist on First instead of Business and then shows the coach seat map. Does TP really have three classes? Maybe it flies this route with only one class? The FCO-LIS-FCO segments show business class but one is three (empty) rows, the other is six (empty) rows.

It looks to me like 19C-D, 20F, 21F, 22F are reserved seats for some reason. If that's true then both FCO-LIS and LIS-FCO have 0 paid passengers! Am I right? Will they still fly?

4A appears to be open LIS-FAO (but both 4A and 6A are taken FAO-LIS. Is this a preferred seat of some kind? There's no 5A.

Exit row is taken on both intra-Portugal flights. Are all other rows the same, or do any have slightly more room?

It seems to me I can have an empty row anywhere I want, which makes Business Class hard to justify (I have to leave home on one day earlier to get the cheaper flight, but EUR85 for the hotel is not much.

Thanks!
andrew

In the end I flew from Canada to London instead of Rome (paid AC points instead of $$$) and then stopped in Lisbon on the way home from the Algarve conference instead of in Rome.

BA was cheaper than TP, but more importantly it had a better connection coming home. I flew LHR-FAO (Faro) on their partner GB Airways, they advertise 31" seat pitch but gave me an exit row. Their Business Class seating was 2-2 but was convertible to economy 3-3. The first ten rows have the middle seat split in half, and for Business Class there's a metal rod that comes down and they mount a pair of armrests onto it, to give the 2-2 seating.

What wasn't clear to me, was if the first ten rows have 34" pitch even as economy (surely they don't move the seats forward and back to switch between classes?). The three-hour flight was 3hr late departing due to a windscreen issue (supposed to leave 15h30, left at 18h30). The crew were all very nice both on the ground and in the air (GB is Gibraltar based), and they gave us a �5 refreshment voucher at about 17h00 when they thought we had to wait until 19h00.

I spent mine at Pret a Manger (sorry for not putting accents on). Bought a baguette sandwich and two bottles of Coca Cola Light for �4.95. I bought the extra pop because I wouldn't get change. Then I discovered their chocolate cake and paid for a piece anyway! I've been meaning to eat at Pret for a long time, I keep passing them in London but they're always crowded. It was really good!

I priced a one-way ticket Faro-Lisbon and it was quite cheap at C$140 (C$175 for J). But then I discovered the bus was only C$22 (2700$00) so I got a four-hour tour of the Portuguese countryside. It was very nice until we got on the motorway, at which point the driver went much too fast on a very windy day.

The flight back LIS-LHR was good, I was not required to prove my right to be in the airport so that may have changed. My bag was checked through to YOW (Ottawa) so I could stay airside in LHR. I did screw up the VAT refund, I bought a huge pile (�264 worth) of CDs by mail delivered to Portugal, but I was told I needed a special receipt from the vendor for claiming the VAT (�35 or so). Oh well, I still saved the 15% taxes at the Canadian border, plus shipping charges.

The BA flight (this time on BA themselves, 32" pitch advertised but they gave me an exit row) was very nice. They had the 2-3 J seating and yes the right side is wider than the left, by 3-4" total (~10cm). From the latches above the windows, it looked like J seating could go almost all the way back (in this case it was about six rows). And clearly for this plane they would replace the seats! (But how do they increase the pitch from 32" to 34"? Is the seats' position changeable?).

Thanks again for the advice, sorry I couldn't fly Qualiflyer this trip. I didn't even remember to ask if the Tivoli hotels in Portugal gave points in QF or any other plan, I guess it's too late now?

andrew