Where have all the cheap J fares gone?
Aug 20, 2018, 10:24 am
#31
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,591
A snapshot from earlier this month:
PVG-DOH: 8 pax in J (plan swap from Qsuites to 24 seat J version)
CDG-DOH: 2 pax in A
ARN-DOH: 5 pax in J (out of 22)
DOH-PVG: 15-20pax in J (out of 42)
Out of around 20 QR flight in the last year, I don't think business class has been more than 50% full more than 5 times. Still a small sample, but very much in line with other people's observations.
PVG-DOH: 8 pax in J (plan swap from Qsuites to 24 seat J version)
CDG-DOH: 2 pax in A
ARN-DOH: 5 pax in J (out of 22)
DOH-PVG: 15-20pax in J (out of 42)
Out of around 20 QR flight in the last year, I don't think business class has been more than 50% full more than 5 times. Still a small sample, but very much in line with other people's observations.
They have been running good promotions from HKG (given that it is an extremely expensive origin point), and I will enjoy in a couple of days a companion offer from CDG at EUR1,800 per head. Not bad.
Aug 20, 2018, 4:34 pm
#32
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Stockholm, Sweden.
Programs: BA, JAL
Posts: 689
From my travels (just j redemptions over the past few months), it seems that the loads are greater on the asia-doh (return) and fairly weak on the europe-doh legs. nrt-doh was almost entirely full in j, maybe 2 or 3 seats free.
Aug 20, 2018, 7:59 pm
#33
Join Date: Jul 2017
Programs: QR Plat
Posts: 85
My sample is small and only longhaul J on the CDG-DOH-HKG route, near 20 segments in last 12 months. J cabin has been full most of the time. Once only 50%, a couple of times a few seats available.
They have been running good promotions from HKG (given that it is an extremely expensive origin point), and I will enjoy in a couple of days a companion offer from CDG at EUR1,800 per head. Not bad.
They have been running good promotions from HKG (given that it is an extremely expensive origin point), and I will enjoy in a couple of days a companion offer from CDG at EUR1,800 per head. Not bad.
Aug 21, 2018, 3:56 am
#34
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Godalming, Surrey, UK.
Programs: Nowt of note.
Posts: 1,628
Interesting. It is likely highly dependent on the route. To make my comment more relevant: I primarily fly between Mainland China and Scandinavia - Chinese passengers are primarily tourists and Scandinavian companies are usually very restrictive on who is allowed to fly business class - for these routes economy is usually very busy and premium cabin not so. I have the occasional flight on more premium routes (mainly CDG and ZRH) loads are higher on these flights.
Aug 21, 2018, 8:56 pm
#35
Join Date: Dec 2002
Programs: QR Plat
Posts: 2,448
Interesting. It is likely highly dependent on the route. To make my comment more relevant: I primarily fly between Mainland China and Scandinavia - Chinese passengers are primarily tourists and Scandinavian companies are usually very restrictive on who is allowed to fly business class - for these routes economy is usually very busy and premium cabin not so. I have the occasional flight on more premium routes (mainly CDG and ZRH) loads are higher on these flights.
-A
Aug 22, 2018, 2:10 am
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
Oslo, of course (and to some extent other Scandinavian cities), have been the target of a number of pretty spectacular QR fares. Indeed, spectacular enough for me to travel once via Oslo
Perhaps the influence of sales goes someway to explaining the reported volatility of demand for routes involving Scandinavia.
Aug 26, 2018, 5:42 pm
#39
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Thailand
Programs: QRPC-Silver & Star-Alliance
Posts: 212
Alway interesting to see how different "snapshot" evidence can be.
Oslo, of course (and to some extent other Scandinavian cities), have been the target of a number of pretty spectacular QR fares. Indeed, spectacular enough for me to travel once via Oslo
Perhaps the influence of sales goes someway to explaining the reported volatility of demand for routes involving Scandinavia.
Oslo, of course (and to some extent other Scandinavian cities), have been the target of a number of pretty spectacular QR fares. Indeed, spectacular enough for me to travel once via Oslo
Perhaps the influence of sales goes someway to explaining the reported volatility of demand for routes involving Scandinavia.
Meanwhile loyal/regular customers may well be switching to other airlines, deterred by increasingly-high prices & negative frequent-flyer 'enhancements', damaging long-term reputation. This isn't about the product in-the-air, but about service/experience on-the-ground, which is also an important part of the product.
Aug 26, 2018, 10:09 pm
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,591
I'd say that it also demonstrates,whether flying Business or Economy, that Real-Sales are the way to fill flights ... and fuller planes keep revenues up, to cover the relatively-fixed costs of operating the existing large scheduled-network. There's a lesson there, for those who want to listen !
Meanwhile loyal/regular customers may well be switching to other airlines, deterred by increasingly-high prices & negative frequent-flyer 'enhancements', damaging long-term reputation. This isn't about the product in-the-air, but about service/experience on-the-ground, which is also an important part of the product.
Meanwhile loyal/regular customers may well be switching to other airlines, deterred by increasingly-high prices & negative frequent-flyer 'enhancements', damaging long-term reputation. This isn't about the product in-the-air, but about service/experience on-the-ground, which is also an important part of the product.
Personally, I find sales frequent enough for my use. Seat investment has been high, and I don't mind paying a bit more than in the past to get the best world business class (including the outstanding CDG lounge with its two lovely outdoor terraces).
Also remember that QR has now signed quite a few corporate contracts and those corporate fares are attractive too and yearlong.
BTW: one more datapoint last week. CDG-DOH full in J. DOH-HKG 50% full.
Aug 27, 2018, 5:31 am
#41
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK/Australia
Programs: BAEC Silver, UA2MM, QF Platinum, VA Platinum., Volare Executive Club
Posts: 2,512
Meanwhile loyal/regular customers may well be switching to other airlines, deterred by increasingly-high prices & negative frequent-flyer 'enhancements', damaging long-term reputation. This isn't about the product in-the-air, but about service/experience on-the-ground, which is also an important part of the product.
As for flight loadings, I'm flying BKK-DOH (380) and DOH-HEL (787) in a couple of weeks, and the seat maps are showing just a handful of seats occupied on each flight at this stage. Quite unusual, really. Unless QR adjusts its current strategy soon, I would expect there to be major forced changes next year, as no airline can continue as it is doing for ever.
Aug 27, 2018, 7:33 am
#42
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 795
I'm looking to book a bunch of monthly trips MCT-LON at the moment (or other UK or near EU), and QR via DOH has been more than three times the cost of the non stop flight on Oman Air for several weeks now. I'm a fan of QR but it's impossible to justify anywhere near that sort of difference. Even First on BA was cheaper than QR J on a trip I took last week.
Perhaps the fare people are on holiday, there have been short periods like this before at times. And they probably don't really want those GBP 800 Europe to Asia J travellers, but they are definitely losing higher revenue sales.
Perhaps the fare people are on holiday, there have been short periods like this before at times. And they probably don't really want those GBP 800 Europe to Asia J travellers, but they are definitely losing higher revenue sales.
Aug 27, 2018, 11:11 pm
#43
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,294
Alway interesting to see how different "snapshot" evidence can be.
Oslo, of course (and to some extent other Scandinavian cities), have been the target of a number of pretty spectacular QR fares. Indeed, spectacular enough for me to travel once via Oslo
Perhaps the influence of sales goes someway to explaining the reported volatility of demand for routes involving Scandinavia.
Oslo, of course (and to some extent other Scandinavian cities), have been the target of a number of pretty spectacular QR fares. Indeed, spectacular enough for me to travel once via Oslo
Perhaps the influence of sales goes someway to explaining the reported volatility of demand for routes involving Scandinavia.
Aug 27, 2018, 11:22 pm
#44
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,294
One other thing I noticed recently is QR appears to finally be starting to offer some slightly less insane F fares from LHR - I noticed last week that for the first time in years QR is now filing A class fares LHR-BKK, still not exactly cheap at £5,000 for an indirect flight but better than the c.£8,000+ it has been on the route for god knows how long.
Suppose there could be some Qsuites impact here, but it suggests F tickets to LHR aren't quite selling as readily as they used to and/or someone in revenue management has actually considered whether anyone is buying the tickets or not.
Suppose there could be some Qsuites impact here, but it suggests F tickets to LHR aren't quite selling as readily as they used to and/or someone in revenue management has actually considered whether anyone is buying the tickets or not.
Aug 28, 2018, 6:04 am
#45
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 776
Indeed, QR has historically relied on cheap fares to fill premium cabins from Scandinavia, given the relative lack of enthusiasm for premium cabins from Scandinavians. I'm fairly sure (as long as pricing doesn't get totally out of hand) QR will continue to fill J cabins on the likes of LHR, JFK and CDG without any blockbuster fares given how strong the QR product is and the premium cabin demand from those cities. What will be interesting is to see what J loads out of OSL and ARN with multiple flights a day look like in 6 months if QR doesn't file any further cheap fares to draw in customers.