number_6

with a full pax load, in both directions. The 747-8 range has been increased to 8300 nm (thanks to better than expected wind tunnel test results, I guess the wing is lower drag than spec'ed). Making the 747-8 a viable alternative to Boeing's current plane for that type of mission (the 777-200LR). It also makes possible a non-stop SYD-JFK flight. I have to believe that QF (and CX) will be getting 747-8s soon.

hobarthoney

Yes there has been reports of a non-stop Business class only QF flight to DFW. I think it will be profitable.

NM

Why business class only? With the range of 8300nm with full pax load, they can operate the same 3-class style they do now to LAX.

hobarthoney

I guess QF sees DFW as a Business hub and they would not get enough people in WHY. QF has also been talking about a full business service to LHR. I am told they are still doing feasibility studies but preliminary work on the design of a full business class fit out are on the drawing board.

NM

The reason for considering an all-business class route is because the aircraft is not capable of making the mission with a full load passengers in the standard 3-class config. This is why SQ have their all business class SIN-EWR flights. If the 747-8 can now make the journey with a full 3-class complement, then I am certain that would be the way Qantas would operate the route if they do indeed decide to buy the 747-8 and want to fly MEL-DFW.

simong

SQ SIN-EWR is not really all business class, just no first and Exec Econ Class..

But I accept its a precedent for more cost for a direct route.

Traveloguy

I think you meant it has Business and Exec Econ class.

bensyd

I thought they had scrapped the LHR-SYD All J idea???
I think when QF get those new 787's it will allow them the chance to fly to more destinations in America and elsewhere

Traveloguy

Going to agree with bensyd on this one. Last reports out of QF indicated they had definitely scrapped the LHR-SYD idea.

I also can't see a SYD-DFW in action in an all J config. Sounds like wishful thinking rather than fact.

NM

The press release from QF at the time they announced the 787 order went along the lines of not pursuing the non-stop SYD-LHR operation as there was no suitable aircraft capable of viably operating the route. But they may consider it later if such an aircraft was subsequently developed.

GoldFlyer

That's what I recall being said as well. Non-stop (in a premium layout) to DFW would I think be more of a demand than to LHR, which has a huge Y component of backpackers and "first big trip" passengers. A hub like DFW is not going to appeal to leisure travelers who for the most part are wanting to go to Disneyland and LA. This is more than demonstrated by Qf's limited schedule to JFK.

QF would have the data on onward connections from LAX to other cities that are currently booked through their system but flown on AA, so I wonder if they see opportunity in flying direct into DFW and allowing greater flexibility in connections from there.

number_6

Rather interestingly the range of all these planes is converging (on the SYD-JFK distance, what a coincidence). The 777-200LR, 787 and now the 747-8 have similar range (wonder how the economics of the 747-8 will compare with the 787?).

Obviously DFW only makes sense for business traffic. Tourists would much rather route via LAX than DFW, for obvious reasons. It would be very foolish to run a high-Y plane DFW-SYD and I'm sure the airlines have this well figured out. DFW is desperate to attract long-haul international flights ... they built a new "international" terminal and 80% of the flights using that terminal are domestic (as there just isn't much international traffic at DFW, unlike ORD).

flyer121

The SQ flights between SIN-EWR are NOT all business calsss. They are business class and have a premium coach, no first. Not all business.

FWAAA

I apologize in advance for not recognizing them, but I'm not certain that those reasons you allude to are so obvious. After all, DFW-Australia would open up single-connection service to many, many spokes that are currently double-connections via LAX. Spokes like IND, CMH, ATL, TPA, PHL, PIT, MCI and countless other smaller cities that enjoy nonstops to DFW but not to LAX. In all, those cities represent tens of millions of people who have nostop service to DFW but not LAX.

Granted, the double connection is probably not a show-stopper, so single-connection service probably won't open the floodgates and result in hundreds of new daily Australia-bound Yank tourists. Not all Australian tourists limit themselves to destinations that are nonstop single-connections from LAX, either. The show-stopper for many Americans to visiting Australia is probably the airfare (it ain't cheap) and the travel time. And DFW-Australia nonstops probably won't significantly alter either.

number_6

Obviously AA serves a lot more cities from DFW than from LAX, which is why it has been talked about forever as a QF destination; in fact QF announced that the 6x747-400ER purchase 4 years ago was specifically to operate SYD-AKL-DFW service (which the -400ER could do but the -400 could not). Similarly for ORD; QF not only announced SYD-LAX-ORD service but sold tickets (and was a week from the start of service, when it decided not to but to use AA codeshares instead). LAX has excellent service on AA, enough to be classed as an AA hub, and QF has been pretty happy with using LAX for its primary traffic (to the point that SFO's attempts to woo the A380 business away from LAX has been unsuccessful so far).

Leisure travel cares about price first, and Disneyland second. DFW-SYD will always cost quite a bit more to operate than DFW-LAX-SYD (my guess is 10% more, it is certainly in that price range), so the lowest fare will never be via DFW but out of LAX. Number of connections doesn't enter into it (or rather most people pick a routing with an extra connection for a 2% drop in fare, much to my amazement -- of course on FT everyone is picking the long way round for the miles).