deeruck

The T&C have been updated so that the above confusion should be avoidable. It specifically states "Australian Domestic" and lists the fare codes and their earning rates for each airline.

QFF Airline Earning Table

(My apologies if this has been noted already )

Aisle Seat H

This is historic ! Proof at last that QF are reading this Forum/lurking... you there, hiding in the shadows, identify yourself !!! Don't be shy, we really are all (well, mostly ) very nice indeed !

They have not addressed/changed the main issue rasied in this Thread and my earlier one btw, but hey, its a start !

QF ExLurker

Jack and Henrietta, I think you should both come out of the closet voluntarily before you are outed.

spotwelder

Thank you all for your efforts. I have read the post 25 May Ts and Cs. Whilst it is clear what is meant for the QF flights on QF metal then I am still concerned about BA flights on QF metal, QF flight numbers on BA metal and BA flights on their own aircraft.

I would like to see a clear statement in the Terms and Conditions, underneath the BA part of the Airline Earning Table which alters the:
"Status credits are earned on all eligible booking classes"
to
"Status credits are earned on all eligible booking classes but not necessarily in accordance with the definition of eligible booking classes given above but reference to the QF eligible booking classes is required. All domestic flights operated by BA within UK/Europe are regarded as international. (add a clause if BA still do the SYD-MEL run)".

Once you have done that, you need to add a clause which states that flights booked in W class are not regarded as discount economy but are world traveller plus, T class is WTP and these earn at a 10% bonus.

Then I will be (i) satisfied that action has been taken to clarify the situation (ii) clear in my understanding of the status credits that I will receive when I decide to make a booking.

Interestingly, if BH classes on BA are regarded as discount economy, it will actually be a case of me paying less for my flights and therefore, the FFP will actually be driving down revenue! Some of the full Y fares on the routes that I use are very high, say AUD 3000 for a mid-week return to West Africa. I might just pay AUD2000 for a fare that books me with full economy status credits, otherwise, KLM and Lufthansa will be getting my business at AUD1400. The change of aircraft is worth the hassle of AUD600. I will get the 2100 status credits a year anyway so oneworld is not doing itself any favours. For reference, BA regards YBH on all of its flights as Full Economy as they are at least semi-flexible fares. Before you all suggest that I shove off to the BA Executive Club, remember, Australian residents cannot!

NM

I agree completely that it would make more sense to see YBHK (is K offered on flights other than QF Australian Domestic?) on international flights treated the same as they do for SC earning on QF Australian Domestic flights. The SC earning rate a B fare as the same as an N or O fare does not make sense to me. I don't expect QF would be selling too many full Y fares on SYD-LAX route, for example. You can almost buy a DCIR22 for the same as a Y SYD-LAX-SYD fare!

I expect they do it so they can charge more FF points for upgrades from these fares to business class. For example a one-way B->U upgrade SYD-LAX costs 72,000 QF FF points, while a Y->U upgrade on the same route is only 45,000 points. Many corporate travel policies book in B and H for international travel (mine often does and I end up paying the diff to a DONE4 or DCIR22), so that keeps the points cost of upgrades at the higher rate.

This is one thing I was hoping they would address with the May 25th changes, but alas it remained unchanged. I guess it works for Qantas since one of the reasons I pay for D fares is to ensure I earn enough SCs to retain top tier status.

I also agree with you that there is confusion around the use of codesahres, especially on Australian domestic flights, such as taking a BA or AA code on a BNE-SYD flight.

spotwelder

You can purchase K class on BA for domestic and international travel. No sure about QF but I know that I have been booked in K in the past.

As for the points for upgrade, ok for QF to do that on QF metal but I cannot use my QF points to upgrade from WTP to Club on BA. Only non-Australians can do that, as only BAEC members have that ability. I can burn the miles to get into Club as a full redemption ticket but not upgrade. Unless, I have completely missed that one, and I wish it were true! Please please tell me I have missed that one.

Dave Noble

I can understand why QF treat H et al internationally in the same way as other discount fares for SCs. Internationally K ,H and B can easily not be close to being a full fare ticket ( unlike domestically ) . On routes where I do buy international tickets ( mainly Uk-Oz ) K,H and B are relatively low fares ( LHR-SYD r/t of GBP739 , GBP829 and GBP959 whereas the YRT fare is GBP4752 ( way higher than the D fare of GBP3044 )

Dave

NM

Which goes to show just how rediculous the Y fare is! Where I have used B class for Australia-USA, it normally comes in over A$3000 (depends on the season). Surely that should be able to justify full economy SCs compared with an N, O, Q etc fare for the same route at 50% of the cost.

Yes, H class is often used for some good value fares. But I am not seen any B fares that could be considered deep discount.

Dave Noble

Well you have now if you read my post , since that had a B of ₤959 . I wouldnt call that fare on the UK-Oz run as anything other than deep discount

Dave

og

BUT, a B class fare is really handy on the SYD-BKK run. It's most important benefit is 12 months validity for the return ticket coupon. This is vital for the BKK xONEx runners (like me). I'm not aware of a lesser return fare class that gives a flexible 12 months validity.

spotwelder

Are QF aware that BA do not actually sell Y fares on some of their domestic routes? Full fares are J fares in a single cabin. Whilst on a J, as a QF then I would get credited business points, fine, the point about "full fare economy" is a little difficult to fathom.

I shall go off and ask the potential Mrs Spotwelder a bit more about domestic fares. It might make the argument put up by QF a little difficult to fathom if BA refuse to sell the fares!

Aisle Seat H

Yes, its a interesting one spotwelder... I THINK what has happened (from the info I have seen) is that BA seem to have dropped the 'UK Business' Fare (where they officially sold Business fares on these Economy-only flights), but from what you say they now instead sell the 'highest' fare that you can buy, defined as Full Economy, is in fact actually in the J (Business) class, and so I assume (as you do) that QF will give you Business SCs and miles for them !

This is particularily funny as, since the change, BAEC FFs (I have been reliably informed) only get Full Economy miles and Tier Credits for these flights !

It gets crazier and crazier !!!

NM

Its not really relevant since its rare for anyone to actually buy a Y fare on Qantas international flights anyway. That means they rarely dish out full economy SCs on any international flights.

As og stated, a B fare is valid for 12 months, and it is full refundable and generally had almost identical availability to Y except when it gets down only having one or two seats left for sale on the day of the flight at peak travle times. And even then, as Dave Noble pointed out, a D fare is less than a Y fare. Result is that very few people actually buy Y from QF for international travel. And it sounds like about the same number buy Y from BA domestic, but for different reasons .

NM

At today's exchange rate or 0.415942, that is A$2305.61. If this was a low-season fare, then I would not call it deep discount. But for high-season travel it is a very good fare, especially with the 12 months validity . It is a lot less than a full Y fare however ^ .

Most of my B fares have been trans-Pacific, where it is actually very attractive for me to pay the difference myself between my employer-paid B fare and a D fare such as DCIR22 or DONE4. That way I get 4 x the SCs and travel in comfort.

Dave Noble

I was looking at the published fares for June. The lowest fare on Qantas (S Class) was GBP609, K came in at GBP739, H at GBP829 and B at GBP959.

Given the jump from there to Y, I can see why QF decide to only treat B as discount.

I wouldnt go for any of these given that T is being offered on BA at GBP1059 for full SCs and a 10% miles bonus.

Just about all fares ex Uk to Oz seem to have a 1Yr validity ( even the GBP439 fare I came over on last year ), so there's no need to buy expensive tickets for that purpose

Dave