While it's true you don't NEED more than one class I think it is important. This is why I suggested a Regional Membership might make more sense (consider Blue1 as an example). Of course, it still leaves a dilema where to feed your premium customers too - I believe most carriers have agreements with QF to stick those customers in J (say you arrive at SYD from a OZ flight and you want to get to ADL or PER and you're in F... do you really want to go to row 13 on DJ when you can get row 2 on QF and a corresponding level of service?).

All I am trying to say is that it's not just any one thing that's a showstopper, but I think all of them together make it a problematic option for now - unless Patrick really changes the way DJ does business (remember, they are competing with JQ at the 7-8 cent CASM level right now - you add in lounges, FF programs, etc etc.. that CASM goes way up, and JQ wins that particular battle...).

QF on the other hand has been smart with JQ - they offer QFF points and SC's on the highly inflated JetFlex (full) fare tix which the business folks buy anyway and they make a massive margin on, and they can bear the costs of those FF perks in the parent company, so it may not even have a noticable affect on CASM.

I doubt DJ can easily match that one.

I can imagine DJ would be forgine close ties with many foreign airlines (UA is a start) that don't want to be in bed with QF. SQ is the obvious choice here - while they fly to all major AU cities on their own, they can always use that feed from tassie and to/from such places as OOL, CNS, ASP & DRW plus regionals. Given the Virgin investment/stake in SQ this would also have nice synergy. However that would essentially also compete with VS on SYD-LHR so that's a point against (why give to SQ when you can funnel everyone to VS at SYD and later MEL?).

Interesting times ahead.
Still.. interesting times ahead here.

The "Buy 10 get 1 Free" offer would appeal to Biz folks for sure.

A LOT of folks are forced to fly DJ due to cost, and are not happy that there are zero perks in that.

Give them a few 'free' flights for their year of sitting in coach, to cart Mum and the kids off to Cairns with at holiday time, and they'd be FAR happier campers. IMHO.

Glen

FlyerTalk 'Oz Fest #2' in Sydney May 27/29, 2005. Click for details

Hey, careful Oz .... I resemble that remark (you should see my semi-optimised itinerary for next trip).
In that case I am not a brain dead moom . I would not even use point for a BNE-PER-BNE for Mrs NM. Paid for N and then used points to upgrade to J. I am sure that little gem earned me more points (in my other scheme) than it cost me in QF FF points .

Maybe I'm looking too hard, or not hard enough, but if the Southwest idea came here, wouldn't it cause an FBT problem? If you were travelling on business to get the free flight, wouldn't you have to role the free flight back into the company, or pay FBT on it? Surely a free flight is a lot easier to calculate a cost on than miles from a taxman point of view?

Ther ONLY reason flyer bennies are not tax adjusted is that poliiticans and bureaucrats would be equally as liable as us, so it will never happen here. IMHO. The same way it does not happen in the USA.

Same way your free Starwood or Hilton nights are not taxed. Two or 3 paid hotel stays gives you a free night in many plans, and they are never taxed.

It is a "Loyalty" reward for good customers. Like a free Gloria Jean coffee for evet 10 purchased, which is also not taxed.

Glen

FlyerTalk 'Oz Fest #2' in Sydney May 27/29, 2005. Click for details

Actually, they do not capacity control. They do have blackout dates, but that's it. To quote from their website: "Rapid Rewards is the only major frequent flyer program that doesn't limit the number of seats available for use with your roundtrip Award. If a seat is available on the flight you want to take, it's yours! Best of all, Southwest Airlines has limited blackout dates so there are virtually no limitations on when you can use your roundtrip Award - imagine the possibilities! "

Deleted. Should have read some later posts before composing my reply.....

But really...is a free coffee from Gloria Jeans a reward? I think oil sludge has a better flavour.

Well Starwood also have exactly the same terms, but trust me you can often book a room and not get an award room at a Sheraton for same night.

And black-out dates are of course in essence a capacity control - i.e. NO flights!

But yes, Southwest have a simple system all the same, and one the AVERAGE person can understand and follow. And guess what - Southwest is capitalised at more than the COMBINED market value of UA, AA, CO, DL and NW combined. The simple approach often is best for everyone.

And with no airline partners and complications accosiated with that, admin for such an award scheme is a tiny % of what other airlines need to pay.

I think a simple and fair "one for ten" would be a huge winner for Virgin.

Glen

FlyerTalk 'Oz Fest #2' in Sydney May 27/29, 2005. Click for details

This afternoon I was invited to participate in a survey that was very clearly aimed at working out the details for a Virgin Blue frequent flyer program. Specifically, the survey asked about:

• Whether it would be better to earn points (like on QF) or airline dollars (like NZ)
• Preferred graphical design of a DJ Visa card
• Whether I would pay a percentage of points to ensure that points are not lost forever in the case of program termination (ie an Ansett guarantee)
• How price sensitive I am on flights that earn points
• It mentioned retail partners, but made no mention at all of airline partners.

Interesting times ahead I believe.

Steve

There is once again speculation that there may be a formal DJ FF program by december however they are hinting they will only do it if they can be totally revolutionary and have no desire to follow existing models so I think we can forget something too similar to QF, NZ or even Rex (of course they could just launch a clone of an existing program an PR it as unique and revolutionary - wouldn't be the first time a virgin company did that!).

In the mean time there is still one (non credit card related) way to earn and redeem point on & for Virgin Blue flights, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=456929

Like this article:

http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.a...5E3122,00.html

" VIRGIN Blue would bring a "game change" to frequent flying if it decided to introduce a loyalty program, chief executive Brett Godfrey said."

and

"Virgin Blue hoped that by Christmas it would be in a position to make an announcement."

They could always offer a FF program that offered 'enhanced' benefits.

Some element of their thinking may come from the following quote

Virgin really have missed the boat on this one.

If they had SOME kind of scheme up and running soon after Death Star commenced they'd have creamed them.

I imagine they have lost about 3-5% of market share by not having SOMETHING to offer frequent travellers. Huge bucks.

They are in a unique position to offer Virgin miles for use or purchase of Virgin music, credit card and phone plans etc, so not having miles as a carrot has cost those business arms as well.

*clap clap*