Who has provided QF feedback on the changes?
Nov 28, 2004, 10:25 pm
#16
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: DXB
Programs: QF Gold MB Gold Elite
Posts: 612
Generic Response
Today I received the attached repsonse to an email I sent last week with regards to the announced changes.
Didn't expect much more, just felt better to get some issues off my chest 
Dear Mr bravoecho
Thank you for your e-mail of 24 November regarding the changes to the
Frequent Flyer program.
Qantas is changing the program to give members greater choice and
flexibility while providing for the future growth of the program.
One of the key program changes being introduced in May 2005 is the move
from the current five zone Award flight table to a 10-zone table based on
one-way trips. Under the new 10-zone table, the number of points
required for an award flight more closely matches the distance of that
flight. The associated realignment of pricing means that members will
need fewer points for the shortest award flights and more points for most
other flights, in particular long-haul and premium itineraries.
For example, a return Economy class flight between Melbourne or Brisbane
and Sydney, two of Qantas' most popular redemption routes, will require
20 per cent fewer points, reducing from 20,000 to 16,000 points. More
than a third of flight awards are redeemed on these routes, so this
change is beneficial to a significant proportion of members.
The change taking effect in May 2005 will be the first increase in award
flight point prices in over three years. The airline industry, and the
competitive environment, has changed dramatically over this period. At
the same time, Qantas has continued to invest significantly in new
aircraft and product enhancements. The realignment of pricing has been
made to reflect these changing market conditions.
Mr bravoecho, I thank you for taking the time to bring your views to our
attention. Feedback such as you have provided is always appreciated and
helps us to ensure we can continue to offer a lounge program that will
meet the needs and expectations of our customers.
Please call our Service Centre on 13 11 31 if you have any further
queries.
Regards
xxxxxx xxx
The Qantas Club & Frequent Flyer Service Centre
Thank you for your e-mail of 24 November regarding the changes to the
Frequent Flyer program.
Qantas is changing the program to give members greater choice and
flexibility while providing for the future growth of the program.
One of the key program changes being introduced in May 2005 is the move
from the current five zone Award flight table to a 10-zone table based on
one-way trips. Under the new 10-zone table, the number of points
required for an award flight more closely matches the distance of that
flight. The associated realignment of pricing means that members will
need fewer points for the shortest award flights and more points for most
other flights, in particular long-haul and premium itineraries.
For example, a return Economy class flight between Melbourne or Brisbane
and Sydney, two of Qantas' most popular redemption routes, will require
20 per cent fewer points, reducing from 20,000 to 16,000 points. More
than a third of flight awards are redeemed on these routes, so this
change is beneficial to a significant proportion of members.
The change taking effect in May 2005 will be the first increase in award
flight point prices in over three years. The airline industry, and the
competitive environment, has changed dramatically over this period. At
the same time, Qantas has continued to invest significantly in new
aircraft and product enhancements. The realignment of pricing has been
made to reflect these changing market conditions.
Mr bravoecho, I thank you for taking the time to bring your views to our
attention. Feedback such as you have provided is always appreciated and
helps us to ensure we can continue to offer a lounge program that will
meet the needs and expectations of our customers.
Please call our Service Centre on 13 11 31 if you have any further
queries.
Regards
xxxxxx xxx
The Qantas Club & Frequent Flyer Service Centre
Nov 29, 2004, 9:45 pm
#17
Moderator, Hilton Honors
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: on a short leash
Programs: some
Posts: 71,422
I seemed to have gotten the condensed version - didnt address any points I raised 
Maybe they felt I wasnt angry enough to bother with?
Maybe they felt I wasnt angry enough to bother with?
The change taking effect in May 2005 will be the first increase in Award
flight point prices in over three years. The airline industry, and the
competitive environment, has changed dramatically over this period.
At the same time, Qantas has continued to invest significantly in new
aircraft and product enhancements. The realignment of pricing has been made
to reflect these changing market conditions.
flight point prices in over three years. The airline industry, and the
competitive environment, has changed dramatically over this period.
At the same time, Qantas has continued to invest significantly in new
aircraft and product enhancements. The realignment of pricing has been made
to reflect these changing market conditions.
Nov 30, 2004, 12:53 am
#18
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SYD
Programs: DJ, QF, SPG, Hilton
Posts: 2,984
I finally got around to writing them a letter, submitted through the web site. My points were specifically targetted towards the costs of upgrades and non-confirmable upgrades.
We'll see what happens - expecting nothing more than the party line response.
We'll see what happens - expecting nothing more than the party line response.
Nov 30, 2004, 6:40 pm
#19
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Jersey, CI
Posts: 1,094
I too received a response, not addressing any of my concerns. It was if they had quoted ad verbatim off a speil they were given to respond to such complaints.
I've since replied back, only to have my email bounce. I re-submitted my concerns about their lack of ability to address concerns.
Maybe a threat to move to their rivals, thereby denying them income will help? Voting with your feet can sometimes be the only way.
Drew
I've since replied back, only to have my email bounce. I re-submitted my concerns about their lack of ability to address concerns.
Maybe a threat to move to their rivals, thereby denying them income will help? Voting with your feet can sometimes be the only way.
Drew
Dec 2, 2004, 12:37 am
#20
Join Date: Nov 2004
Programs: Qantas,Krisflyer
Posts: 2
Letter to Qantasre
Hi Fellow Qantarsian FFlyers
I have posted this on another thread so sorry for those that have already read it but i think this thread is more appropriate
this is the letter i emailed to qantas with no response
Be free to cut and paste and personalise your complaint and use this as a template if you wish. maybe i should have sent it direct to Geoff Dixon and Margaret Jackson. I think if qantas comes under pressure from many premium flyers they would need to at least re examine the disadvantage and the stripping of value that has occurred for their loyal customer base. Maybe the last sentence should be left out.
A Frequent Flyer Programme is designed to reward loyalty. It seems that this new overhaul has not only stripped the loyalty of your gold and platinum frequent flyers but the more higher your status and loyalty the more the new points system is to your disadvantage and the more you will end up losing from the new system. Members that have accumulated points over the years have had their purchasing power of flights and upgrades slashed as the new system also retrospectively affects points that have already been accumulated. There are many members that fly Qantas for the benefits of accumulating points and status credits to obtain the benefits of upgrades and flights. These are the customers that will chose their flights not by price of the cheapest airline and airfare available in the market but are willing to pay a premium for the extras offered for loyalty. The customers loyalty to Qantas is represented by the cumulative available points and status credits available to obtain upgrades and flights. When these loyal members are told that the points that have been accumulated are not going to get you as far or be able to be used with the same value as before you are alienating many of your existing premium members. How do you expect the more frequent flyers to respond to this new overhaul with anything but disgust.
Qantas has made it a point that some benefits have increased, such as family members being able to pool points together. There you are creating a system that doesn't reward the loyal frequent flyer but the occasional flyer who will be able to pool points because they don’t fly as often to be able to get the points on their own so they need extra help to give them the reward. The premium flyers of gold and platinum are the flyers that continuously use qantas on a preferred basis multiple times and they are rewarded by penalising them for staying loyal to qantas by affected their past accumulated points by lessening the value in being able claim a reward that they were able to under the old reward system.
I know that there will be many gold and platinum members who find this very upsetting and will be looking at star alliance alternatives for international as well as virgin blue for domestic options where prices can be cheaper and lounges are available on a user pay system. The days where your premium members are willing to pay a higher airfare in favour of loyalty to qantas will seriously come under pressure. i have been told that the word around the lounges is very negative and many members are questioning how qantas has treated their premium loyal customers.
Woudn't it have made better sense to let the already accumulated points up to May 25 be able to be claimed at the old rates and any points accumulated after that at the new rates. By doing this you will lessen the disadvantage the years of loyalty your premium members have given to qantas by at least letting them keep the value of what they have already accumulated and rightfully deserved.
I'm sure Qantas will be getting many emails in response to this issue and with the way qantas is treating their FF customers i am not going to hold my breath for a response. But i do feel it is important that qantas knows how your members are feeling so that things can be looked at again and hopefully corrected as it would be a shame to destroy what i believe keeps the qantas icon and FF system one step ahead of the pack. I believe what you have done is a marketing and customer relations disaster and should be renamed the Qantas Disloyalty reward programme the less you fly the more benefits you will get to try and claim a reward.
Ken
I have posted this on another thread so sorry for those that have already read it but i think this thread is more appropriate
this is the letter i emailed to qantas with no response
Be free to cut and paste and personalise your complaint and use this as a template if you wish. maybe i should have sent it direct to Geoff Dixon and Margaret Jackson. I think if qantas comes under pressure from many premium flyers they would need to at least re examine the disadvantage and the stripping of value that has occurred for their loyal customer base. Maybe the last sentence should be left out.
A Frequent Flyer Programme is designed to reward loyalty. It seems that this new overhaul has not only stripped the loyalty of your gold and platinum frequent flyers but the more higher your status and loyalty the more the new points system is to your disadvantage and the more you will end up losing from the new system. Members that have accumulated points over the years have had their purchasing power of flights and upgrades slashed as the new system also retrospectively affects points that have already been accumulated. There are many members that fly Qantas for the benefits of accumulating points and status credits to obtain the benefits of upgrades and flights. These are the customers that will chose their flights not by price of the cheapest airline and airfare available in the market but are willing to pay a premium for the extras offered for loyalty. The customers loyalty to Qantas is represented by the cumulative available points and status credits available to obtain upgrades and flights. When these loyal members are told that the points that have been accumulated are not going to get you as far or be able to be used with the same value as before you are alienating many of your existing premium members. How do you expect the more frequent flyers to respond to this new overhaul with anything but disgust.
Qantas has made it a point that some benefits have increased, such as family members being able to pool points together. There you are creating a system that doesn't reward the loyal frequent flyer but the occasional flyer who will be able to pool points because they don’t fly as often to be able to get the points on their own so they need extra help to give them the reward. The premium flyers of gold and platinum are the flyers that continuously use qantas on a preferred basis multiple times and they are rewarded by penalising them for staying loyal to qantas by affected their past accumulated points by lessening the value in being able claim a reward that they were able to under the old reward system.
I know that there will be many gold and platinum members who find this very upsetting and will be looking at star alliance alternatives for international as well as virgin blue for domestic options where prices can be cheaper and lounges are available on a user pay system. The days where your premium members are willing to pay a higher airfare in favour of loyalty to qantas will seriously come under pressure. i have been told that the word around the lounges is very negative and many members are questioning how qantas has treated their premium loyal customers.
Woudn't it have made better sense to let the already accumulated points up to May 25 be able to be claimed at the old rates and any points accumulated after that at the new rates. By doing this you will lessen the disadvantage the years of loyalty your premium members have given to qantas by at least letting them keep the value of what they have already accumulated and rightfully deserved.
I'm sure Qantas will be getting many emails in response to this issue and with the way qantas is treating their FF customers i am not going to hold my breath for a response. But i do feel it is important that qantas knows how your members are feeling so that things can be looked at again and hopefully corrected as it would be a shame to destroy what i believe keeps the qantas icon and FF system one step ahead of the pack. I believe what you have done is a marketing and customer relations disaster and should be renamed the Qantas Disloyalty reward programme the less you fly the more benefits you will get to try and claim a reward.
Ken
Dec 4, 2004, 11:43 pm
#22
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Singapore
Programs: QF LTG, SQ EGTP, Bonvoy LTG
Posts: 4,847
At the end of the day we can provide as much feedback to Qantas as we like but does anyone seriously think they care? Probably the only people who would bother complain are the handful of participants of this forum. The majority of travellers (even frequent ones) would probably just accept it if suddenly the redemption rates doubled even.
The only way to get them to listen would be a concerted consumer boycott campaign (a "Boycott Qantas week" or "..month" perhaps?) The trouble with that concept (despite the ease of communicating via email) is that most of the FTs who actually care, are not student activists and far too busy travelling to organise such a thing, and as for the general travelling public, they probably don't care too much about a few silver tails missing out on a few of their precious ff points.... so I think, unless DJ pulls a rabbit out of the hat to woo us, we'll just have to put up with it, like everything else.
The only way to get them to listen would be a concerted consumer boycott campaign (a "Boycott Qantas week" or "..month" perhaps?) The trouble with that concept (despite the ease of communicating via email) is that most of the FTs who actually care, are not student activists and far too busy travelling to organise such a thing, and as for the general travelling public, they probably don't care too much about a few silver tails missing out on a few of their precious ff points.... so I think, unless DJ pulls a rabbit out of the hat to woo us, we'll just have to put up with it, like everything else.
Dec 5, 2004, 5:26 pm
#23
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 1,023
Originally Posted by lokijuh
At the end of the day we can provide as much feedback to Qantas as we like but does anyone seriously think they care? Probably the only people who would bother complain are the handful of participants of this forum. The majority of travellers (even frequent ones) would probably just accept it if suddenly the redemption rates doubled even.
[snip]
[snip]
Dec 6, 2004, 6:20 pm
#24
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SYD
Programs: DJ, QF, SPG, Hilton
Posts: 2,984
Originally Posted by Leumas
I finally got around to writing them a letter, submitted through the web site. My points were specifically targetted towards the costs of upgrades and non-confirmable upgrades.
We'll see what happens - expecting nothing more than the party line response.
We'll see what happens - expecting nothing more than the party line response.
Here's the relevant part on the QFF changes...
Originally Posted by QFF
I can appreciate your disappointment with the increase in points required for many First and Business Class Awards. This change, effective 25 May 2005, reflects the relative difference in paid fares in different cabin classes. Also, with more than A$2 billion invested in new aircraft and product in 2003/04, including the award-winning Skybed, new First and Business Class menus, and introduction of in-flight SMS, we believe that the increased point levels continue to offer exceptional value to members.
Thanks again for taking the time to share your comments Mr Leumas. Rest assured a copy of your email has been forwarded to the relevant department for consideration during their regular reviews of the Frequent Flyer program, as it is feedback such as yours that is the catalyst for any changes made to the program.
Thanks again for taking the time to share your comments Mr Leumas. Rest assured a copy of your email has been forwarded to the relevant department for consideration during their regular reviews of the Frequent Flyer program, as it is feedback such as yours that is the catalyst for any changes made to the program.
Interesting though when reading their 2nd paragraph - who said the current upgrade charges are too low??? Without your feedback, they wouldn't have introduced these changes...!
Dec 7, 2004, 10:08 pm
#25
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Adelaide
Programs: QF WP+Partner Gold, Skywards Gold, AA, NWA
Posts: 38
I wrote to Geoff Dixon (CEO) and Jenny Chamberlain (General Manager - Loyalty Programs) last week. Jenny Chamberlain called me today to discuss the "new" frequent flyer program. We had a really pleasant and constructive discussion.
The crux of our discussion is that QF is determined to implement the changes, for the business reasons outlined in previous posts. However, they are very concerned that the changes impact most upon their most senior frequent flyers, and are working to furnish their unpublished "super platinum" tier level with wide-ranging, probably-unpublished benefits.
Our discussion persuaded me that it might be worth sticking with the Qantas Frequent Flyer program for the next 6 months or so, just to see what happens. Having said that, I am still wondering whether to credit my Dec-Jan DONE5 to AA or QF?!
The crux of our discussion is that QF is determined to implement the changes, for the business reasons outlined in previous posts. However, they are very concerned that the changes impact most upon their most senior frequent flyers, and are working to furnish their unpublished "super platinum" tier level with wide-ranging, probably-unpublished benefits.
Our discussion persuaded me that it might be worth sticking with the Qantas Frequent Flyer program for the next 6 months or so, just to see what happens. Having said that, I am still wondering whether to credit my Dec-Jan DONE5 to AA or QF?!
Dec 10, 2004, 7:51 pm
#27
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 1A
Programs: Elite Diamond Purple Dot Gold Silver Titanium for life
Posts: 1,822
Today I received an email reply to my hand written letter which does not even try to touch on topics I raised.
*letter attached
Thank you for your correspondence dated 25 November, 2004 regarding the
recent changes to the Qantas Frequent Flyer program.
Even though you have not requested a response from us I feel it necessary
to at least thank you for your comments and for taking the time to
provide us with your feedback.
Please be assured that your letter has been forwarded on to the relevant
department for their information.
Thank you again for writing to us.
Yours sincerely,
Vicki L Rice
The Qantas Club & Frequent Flyer Service Centre
*letter attached
Thank you for your correspondence dated 25 November, 2004 regarding the
recent changes to the Qantas Frequent Flyer program.
Even though you have not requested a response from us I feel it necessary
to at least thank you for your comments and for taking the time to
provide us with your feedback.
Please be assured that your letter has been forwarded on to the relevant
department for their information.
Thank you again for writing to us.
Yours sincerely,
Vicki L Rice
The Qantas Club & Frequent Flyer Service Centre
Last edited by d00t; Dec 11, 2004 at 12:48 am
Dec 11, 2004, 12:52 am
#29
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 1A
Programs: Elite Diamond Purple Dot Gold Silver Titanium for life
Posts: 1,822
Originally Posted by emeraldo
I wrote to Geoff Dixon (CEO) and Jenny Chamberlain (General Manager - Loyalty Programs) last week. Jenny Chamberlain called me today to discuss the "new" frequent flyer program. We had a really pleasant and constructive discussion.
The crux of our discussion is that QF is determined to implement the changes, for the business reasons outlined in previous posts. However, they are very concerned that the changes impact most upon their most senior frequent flyers, and are working to furnish their unpublished "super platinum" tier level with wide-ranging, probably-unpublished benefits.
Our discussion persuaded me that it might be worth sticking with the Qantas Frequent Flyer program for the next 6 months or so, just to see what happens. Having said that, I am still wondering whether to credit my Dec-Jan DONE5 to AA or QF?!
The crux of our discussion is that QF is determined to implement the changes, for the business reasons outlined in previous posts. However, they are very concerned that the changes impact most upon their most senior frequent flyers, and are working to furnish their unpublished "super platinum" tier level with wide-ranging, probably-unpublished benefits.
Our discussion persuaded me that it might be worth sticking with the Qantas Frequent Flyer program for the next 6 months or so, just to see what happens. Having said that, I am still wondering whether to credit my Dec-Jan DONE5 to AA or QF?!
promises promises and more promises.
we all know that in business people say just about anything to keep you loyal and spending time/money. I call BS
Dec 12, 2004, 10:35 pm
#30
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Perth
Programs: QR Platinum
Posts: 547
I've just received a response to my feedback on the changes. Nothing particularly exciting, but I'm moderately pleased that they're making some effort to customise the response to the points each of us are raising.
I'm not sure what they mean about that last comment. I haven't given them any continued custom or support since the changes! The only contact I've had with them was to try to change an award booking. They insisted on charging me 5,000 points, so I went and bought a flight off Air New Zealand instead!
Steve
Dear Mr StevePER,
Thank you for your e-mail about the recently announced changes to the Qantas Frequent Flyer program that will take effect from 25 May 2005.
<Irrelevant paragraph about recently credited points>
I regret your feelings regarding these changes, however, I assure you it was not our intention to lessen the value of our members' loyalty to Qantas or devalue your accumulated Frequent Flyer points. Qantas will endeavour to change the program to give members greater choice and flexibility, while providing for its future growth.
Mr StevePER, we thank you for taking the time to write and express your views on this issue. I can assure you that feedback is always valuable and your comments are greatly appreciated. This has been brought to the attention of management for further review. Qantas thanks you for your continued custom and support.
Thank you for your e-mail about the recently announced changes to the Qantas Frequent Flyer program that will take effect from 25 May 2005.
<Irrelevant paragraph about recently credited points>
I regret your feelings regarding these changes, however, I assure you it was not our intention to lessen the value of our members' loyalty to Qantas or devalue your accumulated Frequent Flyer points. Qantas will endeavour to change the program to give members greater choice and flexibility, while providing for its future growth.
Mr StevePER, we thank you for taking the time to write and express your views on this issue. I can assure you that feedback is always valuable and your comments are greatly appreciated. This has been brought to the attention of management for further review. Qantas thanks you for your continued custom and support.
Steve