Dave Noble

Does the cabin class make any difference there. Why is it ok for Economy passengers to have to put up with uncontrolled children but not business class


If there are a couple of kids who are friends who might actually like being separated from parents for flight, seems a reasonable idea but in other cases, being in separate cabins seems to be saying something about not viewing them as important enough to travel with them

creampuff

These threads come up from time to time and all I can say it you must be a very, very, very infrequent J flyer as EVERY long haul J flight has many children on board, belonging to many sets of parents. This is irrespective of carrier. The only flights where there may not be children on board are short haul/regional flights where people paying their own airfares may be more inclined to stick it out in economy. My last J flight CX HKG-LAX there were about 4 children within a few rows of me (this is in addition to my own 4yo and 1yo who were travelling); I didn't check out the back half of the J-cabin but it would be safe to assume there were more there. My last QF J flight (JNB-SYD), there were at least 8 children.

Qantas is also one of the best, if not the best, airline to travel in business class as a family as Qantas' biz seats are all in a line and all point straight ahead, so you can actually talk to the person next to you. It is very much worthwhile for everyone to travel in J. I'm sure the airline is also happy to have the 3-4x the cash from a family sitting in J, rather than have them all in economy and the airline is certainly happy to sell people of all ages business class tickets.

You may have experienced one idiotic set of parents who let their children get out of control. It is ridiculous to extrapolate that to all parents or all children. You don't post threads saying "OMG there was a drunk/snoring adult on my flight, I think all adults should be banned from flying in my cabin." What of those idiot adults that insist on banging away on their laptop on overnight flights? First of all, if you are in a quiet aircraft like an A380, you can actually hear the keystrokes, then in addition to that there is a glowing orb of light keeping everyone a couple of seats around awake or forcing them to wear eyeshades when they otherwise would not.

How about a special zone on an aircraft:
- no kids
- no snorers
- no people with weak bladders who need to get up often
- no laptops
- no people who talk
- no couples (they talk)
- no disabled (slow to get off, meaning economy pax can make it out the rear door before biz pax held up by the person in J in the wheelchair).

expatboy

^
I wanted to say this - but creampuff has put it far more eloquently than I would have.

og

It's very difficult to be sympathetic when you have a bad experience with your fellow travellers who have babies. Case in point, an AC flight YVR-SYD a year ago in Buisness - parents were in the centre pair of seats with their lap child. Every 30 min or so they passed the child to the other parent with much fuss and bother - the child (of course) responded with a scream each time it was passed over. Later - and seemingly constantly, parent marched up and down the aisles (doing circuits along both aisles) carrying the child - assuming everyone would share their joy of their new package. There was no enjoyment. There was no sleep. Earplugs didn't help. It may have been easier for everyone if the child had its own seat.

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

Sometimes as a passenger you need to point out problems to fellow passengers... they sometimes have no idea what they're doing is causing an issue.

Maybe you did that in this case? Would be interesting to know what their response was?

m0hamed

In these situations, the best solution is to ask to be reseated if possible.

Of course parents should control their children, and if they chose not to, then I would politely mention it to the crew. That said, I have equally flown from LHR to SYD on BA with a heavily pregnant mother and an infant next to us, and my discomfort was minor compared to hers.

It can be an awful experience, but good noise cancelling headphones certainly do help!

LTN Phobia

I have asked to be reseated on QF due to disruptive children with parents who were ignoring them. I was wearing an active noise cancelling in-ear earphone with passive canal earbuds with a noise cancelling headphone on top of them and playing music to drown out the noise (as I often do on long haul flights), but it didn't help enough to let me sleep or relax as those children were shrieking at the top of their voice. It also didn't help that they were running up and down the aisle while they were shrieking. The crew members asked their parents to do something about their children's behaviour but they made no efforts at all.

It was so bad that I asked to be reseated even if I needed to be downgraded as I had been up for about 24 hours by then as I had been on a connecting flight and was really wanting to sleep. Luckily I didn't need to downgrade as they found me another seat in J (downstairs, disruption was on the upper deck).

Requesting to change seats including a request to downgrade if needed have happened multiple times and it's not an uncommon occurrence to have disruptive children on board. On many other occasions I have had to put up with noise and disruption because they didn't have a spare seat on the aircraft at all.

I have had a lot of snorers on board but they didn't bother me much because the noise-cancelling earphones actually work well at those frequencies. It's the high-pitch noise that is usually problematic.

I can sympathise with the OP, although I wouldn't like well-behaved children and their parents to be penalised by being banned from J/F. Ideally, I'd love to see a system where disruptive people (and their travelling companion/parents if they are making insufficient effort to get them to be less disruptive) without sufficient justification* are required to relocate to a sound-proof compartment

*Sufficient justification = e.g. babies screaming from ear pain because of pressure difference etc.

geminidreams

Or if your ticket is being paid for and the 3 childrens tickets are coming out of your pocket it makes a difference, especially if they are over 10. Most can work a tv screen or the games consul, Im sure they can fend for themselves for 10 - 12 hrs especially if the parent is less than 30m away if really needed. Then again sometimes the wife will get into my ear about having to be in economy and I have to do a seat swap .

Guvner067

There's a business opportunity right there.

I don't understand why the airlines don't have "brochures" which politely point out the best methods for keeping kids under control/entertained, how their behavior might upset other pax etc. It can be done in a subtle and "fun' way but still get the point across.

I'm taking my 13y.o and 7 y.o on a J class RTW in a few months. I can guarantee my 7 y.o will be quieter and better behaved than some "adults' on the long hauls.

cova

Was on a QF A380 flight to LAX in J a few months back in row 12. One man in row 11-window seat (next to lounge) had a lap child (I would say very close to 2 years old).

I believe his plan was to make a bed in the lounge for the child, but the FA's quickly made it know that it was no allowed, when he made a bed for the child in the lounge.

Holding a child in a J lie flat just isn't going to work/ He would have been much better off in coach with 2 seats.

I felt bad for the man in the aisle seat next to him, with a crying child. In the end - the man with child walked the cabin most of the night and stood in the galley area a lot. Giving the child their own seat would have been the best option.

I think it depends on the age of the children- if over 6 and with their own J seat - likely not an issue. If young children under 6, then likely in coach with each child having a seat.

Dave Noble

You would of course say that ... don't know anyone that would say that their child was going to be a nightmare for other passengers on an upcoming flight

I agree though that children can be some of the least annoying passengers in a cabin - if someone is prepared to pay for business class , then no reason for them not to

I do disagree with those under 12 being left in a different cabin since they are basically UMs at that age - but not relevent to this

Lucky_man

Another 'who let the kids into J' post but I am going to post - I am just in that sort of mood.

The first OT point is that there should be no lap children full stop - in any class. If they are too small to use a seat belt they should have a 'car' seat. We've done it with our kids and it is safe for us, our child and other passengers.

The next is to watch the crying child anxiety cycle. Those parents 'doing nothing' may be doing the best thing to limit the child's crying. So watch the judgements about parents not doing anything - it may not be obvious when they remain calm and relax they may be doing the best thing - they could also be lazy or just plain exhausted too. It's hard to know the kid and what they respond too.

Dave Noble

The aeroplane is not a car and the likelihood of a incident occurring a lot lower than in a car. I don't see that forcing people to purchase a seat in order to put a car seat in, would be necessary or reasonable

Not only that but different regions have different standards of what car seat is approved for use in an aeroplane and can end up not only forcing people to pay a child fare but dependinfg on airline chosen, to have to purchase a new car seat specifically complying with requirements for that airline

Since this would only come about if a large number of airlines were all to suddenly require it, I think the idea is moot anyway

There are benefits of getting an additional seat, but don't see that there is value in forcing it

Lucky_man

Sorry if I caused some confusion. My post was not based on facts or evidence but more importantly the basis that if it was right for me then it is right for everyone else.

Guvner067

I get your point but in all honesty if my child was a little sh!t on a plane I would do something about it. I know how he behaves on long haul because he's done two 12 hour and three 8 hour flights when he was 5 and 6 with barely a peep except for being overexcited when he spotted the Cars movie on the IFE.