Apr 30, 2016, 12:36 pm
Last edit by: Server
OCTOBER 2016 UPDATE
LAX-JFK TRANSCONTINENTAL FLIGHTS:
1. Same day turns possible on the E-jets and morning 738s.
2. Bonuses now based on fare paid.
3. As of OCTOBER 2016, best fares are now around $1000. Fare tends to rise a few hundred for 2 pax. Fares can also occasionally rise for no discernible reason, but the price spikes have thus far proven to be temporary. Fares have the trend to drop during the year. Keep checking for fares in the $700-$800 ranges for best possible pricing.
4. Airport hotels with shuttles - Crowne Plaza Panama Airport & Riande Aeropuerto. The CP is slightly closer; the Riande is slightly nicer. The CP shuttle leaves the hotel every :00 and :30 and runs 24 hours but they seem to leave a few minutes early as it had left when I went down at 4:00AM on the dot. Also, note UberX charges a US$14 surcharge on top of the ~US$2 fare. CP has poor sound isolation, I could hear my neighbors on both sides including talking, crying baby etc. Had to wear earplugs to sleep.
5. Lounges:
Please refer to this thread for more detailed and accurate information on lounge access in general: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1656378-help-desk-will-i-have-lounge-access-access-rules-2016-a.html
6. PTY Customs:
NOTE: LAX-JFK NO LONGER VALID FOR LOWEST FARES (effective OCT 2016)
If you want the transcon bonus, enter the search with a connection in JFK. (e.g. LAX-JFK,JFK-MIA,MIA-PTY,PTY-JFK,JFK-SFO.) You can play around from there to get the best deal. Some of the better deals do not start and end in the same city (e.g. start in LAX, end in SFO may be cheaper than start/end in LAX).
Also, it's possible on the outbound portion to time it so you have no more than a 60-minute layover at JFK or MIA (though note that some of these flights aren't available on weekends). While yes, JFK is notorious for delays, this rarely applies for inbound red-eye flights. Also, note that AA 28 below is sometimes "hidden" if you're looking on Google Flights inside a much more expensive trip; that does not necessarily mean, however, that you can't get it for one of the trips under $1,000 (in other words, try it out to see).
NOTE: LAX-JFK NO LONGER VALID FOR LOWEST FARES (effective OCT 2016)
Below is the shortest-possible outbound itinerary that has the LAX-JFK transcon on AA's A321T with flat-bed seats:
LAX-JFK on AA 28
10:45pm - 7:22am
JFK-MIA on AA 200
8:15am - 11:24am
(Note: AA has now switched all of the metal it used on this leg - on all JFK-MIA nonstops - to 757s instead of the 767s with international-style F & J seating.)***767 and 772 are back. Flight 200 is a 772**
MIA-PTY on AA 4434
12:33pm - 2:48pm
(Note: Even more distressingly, AA switched from using a 737 on this leg to an RJ, presumably because summer is off-peak season in Central America. The 6:05pm flight still uses a 737 if a full-size aircraft is a must.)
LAX-JFK TRANSCONTINENTAL FLIGHTS:
Recent fare rule inclusions, effective October 2016, now prevent any routing via JFK on the non-stop transcontinental A321T aircraft. Any future booking will demand a significantly higher fare to route on the non-stops via JFK. Unless the fare rules are modified and these clauses are removed (highly doubtful), the ability to fly on the transcons via JFK is a thing of the past.
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL BETWEEN LAX AND NYC
THEN THAT TRAVEL MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY AA FLIGHT OPERATED BY AA
BUT NOT ON AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A321 (SHARKLETS) AIRCRAFT.
AND
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL BETWEEN SFO AND NYC
THEN THAT TRAVEL MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY AA FLIGHT OPERATED BY AA
BUT NOT ON AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A321 (SHARKLETS) AIRCRAFT.
THEN THAT TRAVEL MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY AA FLIGHT OPERATED BY AA
BUT NOT ON AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A321 (SHARKLETS) AIRCRAFT.
AND
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL BETWEEN SFO AND NYC
THEN THAT TRAVEL MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY AA FLIGHT OPERATED BY AA
BUT NOT ON AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A321 (SHARKLETS) AIRCRAFT.
1. Same day turns possible on the E-jets and morning 738s.
2. Bonuses now based on fare paid.
3. As of OCTOBER 2016, best fares are now around $1000. Fare tends to rise a few hundred for 2 pax. Fares can also occasionally rise for no discernible reason, but the price spikes have thus far proven to be temporary. Fares have the trend to drop during the year. Keep checking for fares in the $700-$800 ranges for best possible pricing.
4. Airport hotels with shuttles - Crowne Plaza Panama Airport & Riande Aeropuerto. The CP is slightly closer; the Riande is slightly nicer. The CP shuttle leaves the hotel every :00 and :30 and runs 24 hours but they seem to leave a few minutes early as it had left when I went down at 4:00AM on the dot. Also, note UberX charges a US$14 surcharge on top of the ~US$2 fare. CP has poor sound isolation, I could hear my neighbors on both sides including talking, crying baby etc. Had to wear earplugs to sleep.
5. Lounges:
Please refer to this thread for more detailed and accurate information on lounge access in general: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1656378-help-desk-will-i-have-lounge-access-access-rules-2016-a.html
LAX AIRPORT
= When trying to gain oneworld J / QF F access based on status, it is simply departing/connecting/arriving at any point on same ticket to and from an eligible international destination. PTY is eligible and not excluded regardless of length.
= When trying to gain oneworld J / QF F access based on class of service disregarding status, it is the international long haul clause that applies. Therefore, no "oneworld/QF lounge" access for non-elites for trips to and from PTY unless booking transcons since PTY is under 5 hours. BUT AA doesn't enforce this in their own lounges so Admirals Club access is expected.
AA GOLDs(RUBYs)/NON-ELITES
Admirals Club access is granted regardless of routing as AA does not enforce international long haul rule. However, the oneworld J lounge does for Golds(rubys)/non-elites as they are aware the PTY flights are under 5 hours. Booking transcon flights in J/F gains access to the OWJ/QFF lounges.
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in F = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J lounge + QF F Lounge LAX>
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in J = Admirals + LAX oneworld J lounge>
<Non-Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Technically NONE (PTY under 5 hours therefore class of service rule applies) BUT AA still opens Admirals Club doors to all customers because they dont enforce the long-haul rule>
AA PLATINUMs
Platinums gain access to all AC/Business lounges regardless of routing due to flying to and from PTY. They gain access to First/Flagship lounges when traveling in F 3-class transcon
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in F = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J lounge + QF F Lounge LAX>
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in J = Admirals + LAX oneworld J lounge>
<Non-Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Admirals + LAX oneworld J>
AA EXPs
EXPs have access to all lounges at all airports regardless of routing so long as they are traveling to and from PTY on the same itinerary (an international destination neither excluded from AA's list of ineligible regions nor limited by the flight length rule)
<EXPs Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs Non-Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs on Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA + PTY) in Y = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs on Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA + PTY) in J = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs on Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA + PTY) in F = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
NON-AA ONEWORLD ELITES
All sapphires and emeralds have some form of lounge access on any flight systemwide
<non-AA sapphires on ALL AA FLIGHTS = Admirals Club + oneworld J lounge LAX>
<non-AA emeralds on ALL AA FLIGHTS = Admirals Club + oneworld J lounge LAX + Flagship Lounge + QF F lounge LAX>
OTHER AIRPORTS
SFO - Admiral's Club (Centurion Lounge for a fee)
JFK - Admirals Club & Flagship Lounge for EXP/First 3-class/Emerald
MIA - Admiral's Club (Centurion Lounge for a fee), Oneworld Premium Lounge for EXP/First 3-Class/Emerald
PTY - No lounge access (Copa with PP, or for a fee, for 7am or later flights)
YVR - No lounge access (PP for a fee)
DFW - Admiral's Club (with F/C Dining for EXP/Emerald) (Centurion Lounge for a fee)
= When trying to gain oneworld J / QF F access based on status, it is simply departing/connecting/arriving at any point on same ticket to and from an eligible international destination. PTY is eligible and not excluded regardless of length.
= When trying to gain oneworld J / QF F access based on class of service disregarding status, it is the international long haul clause that applies. Therefore, no "oneworld/QF lounge" access for non-elites for trips to and from PTY unless booking transcons since PTY is under 5 hours. BUT AA doesn't enforce this in their own lounges so Admirals Club access is expected.
AA GOLDs(RUBYs)/NON-ELITES
Admirals Club access is granted regardless of routing as AA does not enforce international long haul rule. However, the oneworld J lounge does for Golds(rubys)/non-elites as they are aware the PTY flights are under 5 hours. Booking transcon flights in J/F gains access to the OWJ/QFF lounges.
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in F = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J lounge + QF F Lounge LAX>
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in J = Admirals + LAX oneworld J lounge>
<Non-Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Technically NONE (PTY under 5 hours therefore class of service rule applies) BUT AA still opens Admirals Club doors to all customers because they dont enforce the long-haul rule>
AA PLATINUMs
Platinums gain access to all AC/Business lounges regardless of routing due to flying to and from PTY. They gain access to First/Flagship lounges when traveling in F 3-class transcon
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in F = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J lounge + QF F Lounge LAX>
<Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA) in J = Admirals + LAX oneworld J lounge>
<Non-Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Admirals + LAX oneworld J>
AA EXPs
EXPs have access to all lounges at all airports regardless of routing so long as they are traveling to and from PTY on the same itinerary (an international destination neither excluded from AA's list of ineligible regions nor limited by the flight length rule)
<EXPs Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs Non-Transcon F (2-class) + PTY = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs on Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA + PTY) in Y = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs on Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA + PTY) in J = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
<EXPs on Transcon 3-class (JFK/MIA + PTY) in F = Admirals + Flagship + LAX oneworld J + QF F lounge LAX>
NON-AA ONEWORLD ELITES
All sapphires and emeralds have some form of lounge access on any flight systemwide
<non-AA sapphires on ALL AA FLIGHTS = Admirals Club + oneworld J lounge LAX>
<non-AA emeralds on ALL AA FLIGHTS = Admirals Club + oneworld J lounge LAX + Flagship Lounge + QF F lounge LAX>
OTHER AIRPORTS
SFO - Admiral's Club (Centurion Lounge for a fee)
JFK - Admirals Club & Flagship Lounge for EXP/First 3-class/Emerald
MIA - Admiral's Club (Centurion Lounge for a fee), Oneworld Premium Lounge for EXP/First 3-Class/Emerald
PTY - No lounge access (Copa with PP, or for a fee, for 7am or later flights)
YVR - No lounge access (PP for a fee)
DFW - Admiral's Club (with F/C Dining for EXP/Emerald) (Centurion Lounge for a fee)
6. PTY Customs:
Inbound to PTY -
Outbound to MIA -
7. Finding flights: - 12 noon - no lines reported
- 8PM Fri (5/27/16) - ~10 min line
Outbound to MIA -
- 4:40am - no lines reported
NOTE: LAX-JFK NO LONGER VALID FOR LOWEST FARES (effective OCT 2016)
If you want the transcon bonus, enter the search with a connection in JFK. (e.g. LAX-JFK,JFK-MIA,MIA-PTY,PTY-JFK,JFK-SFO.) You can play around from there to get the best deal. Some of the better deals do not start and end in the same city (e.g. start in LAX, end in SFO may be cheaper than start/end in LAX).
Also, it's possible on the outbound portion to time it so you have no more than a 60-minute layover at JFK or MIA (though note that some of these flights aren't available on weekends). While yes, JFK is notorious for delays, this rarely applies for inbound red-eye flights. Also, note that AA 28 below is sometimes "hidden" if you're looking on Google Flights inside a much more expensive trip; that does not necessarily mean, however, that you can't get it for one of the trips under $1,000 (in other words, try it out to see).
NOTE: LAX-JFK NO LONGER VALID FOR LOWEST FARES (effective OCT 2016)
Below is the shortest-possible outbound itinerary that has the LAX-JFK transcon on AA's A321T with flat-bed seats:
LAX-JFK on AA 28
10:45pm - 7:22am
JFK-MIA on AA 200
8:15am - 11:24am
(Note: AA has now switched all of the metal it used on this leg - on all JFK-MIA nonstops - to 757s instead of the 767s with international-style F & J seating.)***767 and 772 are back. Flight 200 is a 772**
MIA-PTY on AA 4434
12:33pm - 2:48pm
(Note: Even more distressingly, AA switched from using a 737 on this leg to an RJ, presumably because summer is off-peak season in Central America. The 6:05pm flight still uses a 737 if a full-size aircraft is a must.)
AA: LAX-JFK-MIA-PTY RT $702 in A/J 18.9K EQMs
Oct 2, 2016, 12:16 pm
#1861
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia / USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA 1K, VA Platinum, HA Platinum, QF Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 414
No worries. It is good to correct and clarify posts.
Are you sure about that?
I don't believe there is an aircraft restriction on the 3 transcon routes. When we fly the 767 MIA-LAX we always get amenity kits, printed menus, etc. We already have lounge access, but I think you get lounge access as well...
As a First or Business Class customer, you also have access if you’re traveling on non-stop, transcontinental flights marketed and operated by American Airlines between:
New York (JFK) - Los Angeles (LAX)
New York (JFK) - San Francisco (SFO)
Los Angeles (LAX) - Miami (MIA)
(Source AA, bolding mine.)
Are you sure about that?
I don't believe there is an aircraft restriction on the 3 transcon routes. When we fly the 767 MIA-LAX we always get amenity kits, printed menus, etc. We already have lounge access, but I think you get lounge access as well...
As a First or Business Class customer, you also have access if you’re traveling on non-stop, transcontinental flights marketed and operated by American Airlines between:
New York (JFK) - Los Angeles (LAX)
New York (JFK) - San Francisco (SFO)
Los Angeles (LAX) - Miami (MIA)
(Source AA, bolding mine.)
And for anyone looking to fly on MIA-LAX alone, disregarding status of any level, you will only have access to the Admirals Club and NOT the Flagship lounges or TBIT oneworld and/or Qantas First lounge UNLESS you book in First or Business on a 3-class transcontinental flight. IF you choose to book on a 2-class service flight such as a 737, 757, 32B, 767, 772, you will still get a full service meal and that sundae onboard, but you will get denied lounge access to the Flagship and oneworld premium lounges if applicable at the airport on both ends.
And when 2017 rolls around, dont expect to have access to the Flagship dining either. Thats exclusively for 3-class international First class customers and First customers on 3-class transcontinental flights. The ground benefits alone make the value of booking onto a 3-class marketed/operated aircraft tremendously higher!
Feel free to keep booking and flying in 2-class First on the route. Ill be rolling up to the curbside Flagship check in at LAX for 3-class First.
Last edited by wanderlust4life; Oct 2, 2016 at 12:50 pm
Oct 2, 2016, 12:49 pm
#1862
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New Orleans (MSY)
Programs: AA EXP, IHG PLT, Hilton Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Amtrak, WN
Posts: 2,617
What you are referring to are the rules for international flights as pointed out on the website. "Foreign air transportation is governed by applicable tariffs on file with the Department of Transportation."
Domestic flights are bound by the domestic "Conditions of Carriage" where "American will endeavor to carry you and your baggage with reasonable dispatch, but times shown in timetables or elsewhere are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. American may, without notice, substitute alternate carriers or aircraft and, if necessary, may alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket. Schedules are subject to change without notice. American is not responsible for or liable for failure to make connections, or to operate any flight according to schedule, or for a change to the schedule of any flight. Under no circumstances shall American be liable for any special, incidental or consequential damages arising from the foregoing."
In other words, a flight from LAX-LHR downgraded from 77W to 777 (old configuration) warrants the ability to cancel entire ticket without penalty. A flight from LAX-DFW downgraded from 787 to 737 does not warrant the ability to cancel ticket without penalty or make changes without paying the change fee and fare difference.
For international flights, the equipment change alone does warrant the ability to cancel without penalty. The rules point out that after ticket issuance, it can either be a scheduled 2 hour delay OR an intermediate stop OR an equipment change.
NOW where it gets tricky is when you have booked a ticket involving both domestic and international legs. In theory, agents are only supposed to acknowledge "the equipment change unacceptable clause" for international flights. In practice, however, there are agents that have allowed tickets to be canceled without penalty when there are unacceptable equipment changes on domestic legs when its an international ticket with a fare basis from LAX-PTY via JFK/MIA etc.
Also, canceling without penalty is one thing, but being able to change flights around after the incident without paying anything is another thing.
"IF A CANCELLATION OR A CHANGE IN EITHER AIR OR TOUR ITINERARY IS INITIATED EITHER BY AA OR IT'S TOUR OPERATORS WHICH IS UNACCEPTABLE TO THE PASSENGER, THE PASSENGER WILL HAVE THE OPTION OF CANCELLING WITHOUT PENALTY, OR REROUTING ON DIFFERENT FLIGHTS TO/FROM THE SAME OR DIFFERENT DESTINATION.HOWEVER, THE PASSENGER MUST PAY ANY ADDITIONAL AMOUNTS RESULTING FROM THE REROUTING."
There is no change fee assessed and almost all LAX-PTY restricted premium tickets come with a $300 fee otherwise. There IS a fare difference applied when rerouting and choosing a better flight.
Aircraft substitutions on domestic routes happen constantly on AA. If everyone were able to switch around their flights and move onto other flights with better aircraft without paying fees and fare differences, than the airline would have never-ending change requests. Granted there are several agents that do bend the rules and waive change fees and fare differences and will put you on your desired aircraft, its just not something to expect and HUCA could take a lot of NOs before you get that one YES.
The reason I know these rules very well is because I just canceled a mileage run from LAX-UIO. My MIA-UIO-MIA segments were downgraded from a 767 lie flat to 757 angle flat. The agents would not let me change itinerary around without paying fare difference and I spent weeks HUCA trying to get an agent to bend the rules. Therefore, I ended up canceling the whole ticket without penalty and received a refund to original form of payment. I then found dates where the 767 was back on the route and rebooked and actually saved a few dollars.
I even had positioning flights on a completely separate ticket to get to and from LAX for the UIO trip and the agent canceled them and waived the $200 change fee and I could use the ticket values toward a new booking. Now that right there is an amazing agent to do that and case in point that rules are one thing and flexible agents are priceless! YMMV
In sum, according to the rules of both domestic flights versus foreign air travel you aren't able to cancel tickets when domestic flights get aircraft substitutions. This is not to be confused with schedule time changes of <90 minutes and >90 minutes and flight length increases etc affecting all flights. Thats a whole separate situation altogether.
Its honestly really great to have these rights when it comes to international tickets. And the vague term "unacceptable" is highly subjective and works to the passenger's advantage. Therefore, under current rules, its actually really easy to cancel an impacted international trip and get money back! Not a travel credit!
At the end of the day, since you do hold an international ticket, you may find an agent that will cancel the ticket without penalty when taking into account that the fare basis is really determined by flying to PTY, an international destination.
Domestic flights are bound by the domestic "Conditions of Carriage" where "American will endeavor to carry you and your baggage with reasonable dispatch, but times shown in timetables or elsewhere are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. American may, without notice, substitute alternate carriers or aircraft and, if necessary, may alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket. Schedules are subject to change without notice. American is not responsible for or liable for failure to make connections, or to operate any flight according to schedule, or for a change to the schedule of any flight. Under no circumstances shall American be liable for any special, incidental or consequential damages arising from the foregoing."
In other words, a flight from LAX-LHR downgraded from 77W to 777 (old configuration) warrants the ability to cancel entire ticket without penalty. A flight from LAX-DFW downgraded from 787 to 737 does not warrant the ability to cancel ticket without penalty or make changes without paying the change fee and fare difference.
For international flights, the equipment change alone does warrant the ability to cancel without penalty. The rules point out that after ticket issuance, it can either be a scheduled 2 hour delay OR an intermediate stop OR an equipment change.
NOW where it gets tricky is when you have booked a ticket involving both domestic and international legs. In theory, agents are only supposed to acknowledge "the equipment change unacceptable clause" for international flights. In practice, however, there are agents that have allowed tickets to be canceled without penalty when there are unacceptable equipment changes on domestic legs when its an international ticket with a fare basis from LAX-PTY via JFK/MIA etc.
Also, canceling without penalty is one thing, but being able to change flights around after the incident without paying anything is another thing.
"IF A CANCELLATION OR A CHANGE IN EITHER AIR OR TOUR ITINERARY IS INITIATED EITHER BY AA OR IT'S TOUR OPERATORS WHICH IS UNACCEPTABLE TO THE PASSENGER, THE PASSENGER WILL HAVE THE OPTION OF CANCELLING WITHOUT PENALTY, OR REROUTING ON DIFFERENT FLIGHTS TO/FROM THE SAME OR DIFFERENT DESTINATION.HOWEVER, THE PASSENGER MUST PAY ANY ADDITIONAL AMOUNTS RESULTING FROM THE REROUTING."
There is no change fee assessed and almost all LAX-PTY restricted premium tickets come with a $300 fee otherwise. There IS a fare difference applied when rerouting and choosing a better flight.
Aircraft substitutions on domestic routes happen constantly on AA. If everyone were able to switch around their flights and move onto other flights with better aircraft without paying fees and fare differences, than the airline would have never-ending change requests. Granted there are several agents that do bend the rules and waive change fees and fare differences and will put you on your desired aircraft, its just not something to expect and HUCA could take a lot of NOs before you get that one YES.
The reason I know these rules very well is because I just canceled a mileage run from LAX-UIO. My MIA-UIO-MIA segments were downgraded from a 767 lie flat to 757 angle flat. The agents would not let me change itinerary around without paying fare difference and I spent weeks HUCA trying to get an agent to bend the rules. Therefore, I ended up canceling the whole ticket without penalty and received a refund to original form of payment. I then found dates where the 767 was back on the route and rebooked and actually saved a few dollars.
I even had positioning flights on a completely separate ticket to get to and from LAX for the UIO trip and the agent canceled them and waived the $200 change fee and I could use the ticket values toward a new booking. Now that right there is an amazing agent to do that and case in point that rules are one thing and flexible agents are priceless! YMMV
In sum, according to the rules of both domestic flights versus foreign air travel you aren't able to cancel tickets when domestic flights get aircraft substitutions. This is not to be confused with schedule time changes of <90 minutes and >90 minutes and flight length increases etc affecting all flights. Thats a whole separate situation altogether.
Its honestly really great to have these rights when it comes to international tickets. And the vague term "unacceptable" is highly subjective and works to the passenger's advantage. Therefore, under current rules, its actually really easy to cancel an impacted international trip and get money back! Not a travel credit!
At the end of the day, since you do hold an international ticket, you may find an agent that will cancel the ticket without penalty when taking into account that the fare basis is really determined by flying to PTY, an international destination.
Oct 2, 2016, 12:59 pm
#1863
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia / USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA 1K, VA Platinum, HA Platinum, QF Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 414
No problem whatsoever! I had done all the research beforehand for my UIO run refund request and I just compiled it all right here! Really pays off to know the rules and what you are entitled to! If I hadn't done any research and went off of what the first agent said of no refund allowed for aircraft swap, I wouldn't have woken up to this email today! :-)
Oct 2, 2016, 9:00 pm
#1864
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
You said "no extra perks there"... then list access to the Admirals Club and the Sundae. (And you forgot the amenity kit.) I never said anything (either way) about the rest of the things you mentioned.
The fact is this route is a transcon route and comes with extra perks, regardless of aircraft type.
Oct 2, 2016, 9:22 pm
#1865
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia / USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA 1K, VA Platinum, HA Platinum, QF Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 414
You changed the argument!
You said "no extra perks there"... then list access to the Admirals Club and the Sundae. (And you forgot the amenity kit.) I never said anything (either way) about the rest of the things you mentioned.
The fact is this route is a transcon route and comes with extra perks, regardless of aircraft type.
You said "no extra perks there"... then list access to the Admirals Club and the Sundae. (And you forgot the amenity kit.) I never said anything (either way) about the rest of the things you mentioned.
The fact is this route is a transcon route and comes with extra perks, regardless of aircraft type.
You can't compare the 2-class MIA-LAX to the 3-class MIA-LAX and 3-class LAX/SFO-JFK. There is too much of a difference and it gets way too confusing for people to know what to expect. Granted, Admirals Club is included. What people are expecting when booking on the MIA-LAX route is access to the Flagship Lounge if in F or the oneworld lounge if in J. For a person to say, I'm flying transcon in F from LAX to MIA when really they are on 2-class F, well thats misleading. That person won't be at Flagship check in, not able to go to the Flagship lounge or the Qantas First lounge. Yes the sundae and amenity kits are a nice touch to have on all flights for the route. But I just personally think its not right to put the 2-class MIA-LAX first in the same category as the 3-class First which costs more and includes much more value.Now, if I were able to fly on the 767 lie flat in 2-class First, thats a great inflight experience versus being on the 737 for the exact same price.
If AA were to standardize all flights between MIA and LAX and include all ground benefits where the only difference is the hard product onboard, then all flights would be interchangeable in soft product. Unfortunately, thats not the case. And I feel bad for someone that gets the impression he/she is going to be able to access these premium lounges when booking in whatever premium class is being sold and ends up finding out that only 1 or 2 of the flights operating out of the dozen a day get such extra access.
Oct 3, 2016, 2:03 am
#1866
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
All I said is benefits apply. You said no benefits. For those without lounge access, AC access is pretty good. The sundae is a nice one too. And the amenity bag and better menu are all good as well.
Oct 3, 2016, 4:19 pm
#1867
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Upper U.S.
Programs: AA EXP x 1.5, DL GM, JB, HH GLD
Posts: 145
Well, I made it to JFK on time, but my flight to CLT was an going to be delayed by an hour, which would have made me miss my connection on to LAX. When I tried to work a re-route in the AC, they were of no help. According to the "system," these are supposedly coach fares, that somehow book into first, so they were unwilling to give me either first or business on a non-stop from JFK to LAX
So, I went out an worked the counter for a few minutes, and now I have a confirmed business class seat on the non-stop. I had to get there in order to make my flight back to Miami later tonight. So far, so good.
So, I went out an worked the counter for a few minutes, and now I have a confirmed business class seat on the non-stop. I had to get there in order to make my flight back to Miami later tonight. So far, so good.
Oct 3, 2016, 7:33 pm
#1868
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia / USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA 1K, VA Platinum, HA Platinum, QF Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 414
Well, I made it to JFK on time, but my flight to CLT was an going to be delayed by an hour, which would have made me miss my connection on to LAX. When I tried to work a re-route in the AC, they were of no help. According to the "system," these are supposedly coach fares, that somehow book into first, so they were unwilling to give me either first or business on a non-stop from JFK to LAX
So, I went out an worked the counter for a few minutes, and now I have a confirmed business class seat on the non-stop. I had to get there in order to make my flight back to Miami later tonight. So far, so good.
So, I went out an worked the counter for a few minutes, and now I have a confirmed business class seat on the non-stop. I had to get there in order to make my flight back to Miami later tonight. So far, so good.
These cheap tickets have a very interesting fare basis calculated from LAX-PTY. And when looking at the segments, they can appear as UP fares, but in actuality they are booked as premium class. If you ever encounter someone that starts to shut you down, its best to save the time arguing and say thanks anyway and then peace out and find someone that will help you.
Oct 3, 2016, 10:32 pm
#1869
Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: OWE
Posts: 131
my intin is LAX-ORD-JFK-DCA-MIA-PTY-MIA-JFK-PHX-LAX from 10/1-10/4
today is my MIA-PTY-MIA-JFK leg.
same as @Flyerhandle above, the lounge agent at MIA AC said my ticket was coach somehow booked into First Class. weird.
i would have had a 4 hour layover in PTY until i get back to miami. I much rather have a layover in MIA than PTY. I went to MIA early before flying out to PTY and was able to get the AC agents to put me on stand by for a direct turnaround at PTY once i get off from MIA, then back to MIA on the same plane. Agent insisted that they were unable to put me on standby on any international flights, but they made a call and found out that PTY (or maybe just central america in general?) is EXEMPT and you can be put on a standby list at the airport!
banking on the fact that i was able to take the earlier PTY-MIA flight (and i did), I asked to be placed on standby for an earlier MIA-JFK flight with a TIGHT 30 min connection between the two. customs+going through security, and after what feels like i ran a half marathon later, i was on a flight to JFK. sadly it was the old 757, where the safety video was shown on a PULL OUT TUBE TV lol
today is my MIA-PTY-MIA-JFK leg.
same as @Flyerhandle above, the lounge agent at MIA AC said my ticket was coach somehow booked into First Class. weird.
i would have had a 4 hour layover in PTY until i get back to miami. I much rather have a layover in MIA than PTY. I went to MIA early before flying out to PTY and was able to get the AC agents to put me on stand by for a direct turnaround at PTY once i get off from MIA, then back to MIA on the same plane. Agent insisted that they were unable to put me on standby on any international flights, but they made a call and found out that PTY (or maybe just central america in general?) is EXEMPT and you can be put on a standby list at the airport!
banking on the fact that i was able to take the earlier PTY-MIA flight (and i did), I asked to be placed on standby for an earlier MIA-JFK flight with a TIGHT 30 min connection between the two. customs+going through security, and after what feels like i ran a half marathon later, i was on a flight to JFK. sadly it was the old 757, where the safety video was shown on a PULL OUT TUBE TV lol
Oct 3, 2016, 11:28 pm
#1870
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Upper U.S.
Programs: AA EXP x 1.5, DL GM, JB, HH GLD
Posts: 145
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These cheap tickets have a very interesting fare basis calculated from LAX-PTY. And when looking at the segments, they can appear as UP fares, but in actuality they are booked as premium class. If you ever encounter someone that starts to shut you down, its best to save the time arguing and say thanks anyway and then peace out and find someone that will help you.
These cheap tickets have a very interesting fare basis calculated from LAX-PTY. And when looking at the segments, they can appear as UP fares, but in actuality they are booked as premium class. If you ever encounter someone that starts to shut you down, its best to save the time arguing and say thanks anyway and then peace out and find someone that will help you.
If I had missed my connection in CLT, then I would have missed my flight back to MIA tonight. But, now, chilling in LAX AC, and leaving for MIA in an hour and a half. I ended up beating my original CLT flight. Never give up.
Oct 3, 2016, 11:55 pm
#1871
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia / USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA 1K, VA Platinum, HA Platinum, QF Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 414
-UP Fares Explanation
Nearly EVERY discounted premium fare sold on AA.com is going to be a -UP fare.
Before, you'd see something like this in the fare rules,
ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
THE FARE WAS CALCULATED AS 100 PERCENT OF THE LHN0NSN1
FARE PLUS USD300.00.
FARE PLUS USD300.00.
An easy way to know you have an -UP fare ticket is by the fare basis looking like this "LHN0NSN1/LAUP" This is an L-fare economy ticket instantly upgraded to next class of service. This sample fare is priced at $738 round trip. The same routing for an actual premium fare ticket is "INN0NSN1" priced at $1796! Common sense alone makes a person realize that they most likely have an -UP fare when getting a really good deal on a premium ticket.
Now why does this matter if we are flying in Business or First whether we have an -UP fare or actual premium fare? They matter when things go wrong!!!
"Because if I buy either of these tickets and then I decide that I want to fly an earlier or later flight, these fares will not permit me to walk up to the counter and claim a last-minute F seat if my capacity-controlled inventory is not available. For instance, if that last F seat is in F (not P or A), then I'd have to pay the fare difference in order to confirm a change to that seat. We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly."
During irregular operations or missed connections, one may continue in that class of service if A, P or I is available, or the passenger can take a voluntary downgrade to the lower class of service / Y on an earlier flight. Some may do this if waiting for A, P or I requires one or more overnights. Refunds may be limited to $0.50 per mile to a maximum of $50 per downgraded segment, and are limited to vouchers good for future travel on AA.
If you dont want to have a condescending tone from an agent when requesting changes mid-trip, then you can find fares on EF that dont have an -UP basis or simply go with the full-fare F and J and have access to any premium seat and not only the A, P, I seats. However, the cost of those fares are simply outrageous.
This website also lists all the fares for AA in a color coded chart = http://cwsi.net/aa.htm
Last edited by wanderlust4life; Oct 4, 2016 at 12:22 am
Oct 4, 2016, 12:01 am
#1872
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia / USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA 1K, VA Platinum, HA Platinum, QF Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 414
Yes, apparently they do have some odd coding in the system, but I did the live version of HUCA, and found the gate supervisor who was able to give me the last business class seat on the non-stop to LAX.
If I had missed my connection in CLT, then I would have missed my flight back to MIA tonight. But, now, chilling in LAX AC, and leaving for MIA in an hour and a half. I ended up beating my original CLT flight. Never give up.
If I had missed my connection in CLT, then I would have missed my flight back to MIA tonight. But, now, chilling in LAX AC, and leaving for MIA in an hour and a half. I ended up beating my original CLT flight. Never give up.
Oct 4, 2016, 12:08 am
#1873
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: American EXP; British Airways Gold
Posts: 1,896
my intin is LAX-ORD-JFK-DCA-MIA-PTY-MIA-JFK-PHX-LAX from 10/1-10/4
today is my MIA-PTY-MIA-JFK leg.
same as @Flyerhandle above, the lounge agent at MIA AC said my ticket was coach somehow booked into First Class. weird.
i would have had a 4 hour layover in PTY until i get back to miami. I much rather have a layover in MIA than PTY. I went to MIA early before flying out to PTY and was able to get the AC agents to put me on stand by for a direct turnaround at PTY once i get off from MIA, then back to MIA on the same plane. Agent insisted that they were unable to put me on standby on any international flights, but they made a call and found out that PTY (or maybe just central america in general?) is EXEMPT and you can be put on a standby list at the airport!
banking on the fact that i was able to take the earlier PTY-MIA flight (and i did), I asked to be placed on standby for an earlier MIA-JFK flight with a TIGHT 30 min connection between the two. customs+going through security, and after what feels like i ran a half marathon later, i was on a flight to JFK. sadly it was the old 757, where the safety video was shown on a PULL OUT TUBE TV lol
today is my MIA-PTY-MIA-JFK leg.
same as @Flyerhandle above, the lounge agent at MIA AC said my ticket was coach somehow booked into First Class. weird.
i would have had a 4 hour layover in PTY until i get back to miami. I much rather have a layover in MIA than PTY. I went to MIA early before flying out to PTY and was able to get the AC agents to put me on stand by for a direct turnaround at PTY once i get off from MIA, then back to MIA on the same plane. Agent insisted that they were unable to put me on standby on any international flights, but they made a call and found out that PTY (or maybe just central america in general?) is EXEMPT and you can be put on a standby list at the airport!
banking on the fact that i was able to take the earlier PTY-MIA flight (and i did), I asked to be placed on standby for an earlier MIA-JFK flight with a TIGHT 30 min connection between the two. customs+going through security, and after what feels like i ran a half marathon later, i was on a flight to JFK. sadly it was the old 757, where the safety video was shown on a PULL OUT TUBE TV lol
Both times, when I could not make my scheduled flight to get to PTY from MIA (IN FIRST CLASS) due to something under AA's control, I went to the AC lounge, requested they pay for meals and a hotel and provide Original Routing Credit. Then, I flew out the next day from MIA on the rest of the original itinerary.
No drama. No begging for an upgrade or a special favor. Just spend a leisurely night at a hotel near MIA, use the hotel pool and gym, use AA meal vouchers, and fly home. AND, the miles are credited for the entire trip.
Sweet.
Oct 4, 2016, 12:28 am
#1875
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia / USA
Programs: AS 100K, UA 1K, VA Platinum, HA Platinum, QF Gold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Gold
Posts: 414
More so than not agents do try to help especially in the moment at the gates. As jcatman pointed out and I've experienced as well, a lot of agents just want you to have the most positive experience and least disruptive trip and they do try to make things happen if that one seat is empty or there is a more direct flight to take etc..