FL captain arrested in PHF bound for BOS flight this early morning
Jul 18, 2009, 9:00 am
#76
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta-PM, HH-Diamond, MR-Silver
Posts: 23
"A pilot approached the checkpoint. I spoke to him, but he did not speak back," Bell's complaint says. "As he was putting his items in the tray, I tried to reposition his items before they went through the X-ray. The pilot them squeezed my hand very tight and shoved my hand back away from the tray that his items were in. I then called to make a complaint."
Did everyone notice that the first thing Ms. Bell complained about was that she spoke to the pilot and "he did not speak back." This is definitely an ego/power situation as Ms. Bell probably didn't receive the "respect" she felt she deserved.
Did everyone notice that the first thing Ms. Bell complained about was that she spoke to the pilot and "he did not speak back." This is definitely an ego/power situation as Ms. Bell probably didn't receive the "respect" she felt she deserved.
Jul 18, 2009, 9:24 am
#77
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,037
"A pilot approached the checkpoint. I spoke to him, but he did not speak back," Bell's complaint says. "As he was putting his items in the tray, I tried to reposition his items before they went through the X-ray. The pilot them squeezed my hand very tight and shoved my hand back away from the tray that his items were in. I then called to make a complaint."
Did everyone notice that the first thing Ms. Bell complained about was that she spoke to the pilot and "he did not speak back." This is definitely an ego/power situation as Ms. Bell probably didn't receive the "respect" she felt she deserved.
Did everyone notice that the first thing Ms. Bell complained about was that she spoke to the pilot and "he did not speak back." This is definitely an ego/power situation as Ms. Bell probably didn't receive the "respect" she felt she deserved.
There something noticeably absent from her account.
She claims she "spoke to the pilot." Okay, that could mean she only said "Good Morning" or something innocuous like that.
If I were the pilot's attorney, here's the point I would pounce on: Usually, when people or agencies want to make the point of them "just doing their job" to the traveling public (and playing victim), they will say they said something like (in this case) "I'm going to re-arrange your items."
Her account didn't say that, so I'm going to want to know exactly what she said. She likely just said something like "good morning" or "hello," something not directly related to grabbing the pilot's items.
She also said she talked to the pilot, and THEN he put his items in the bin. So, it was likely that she did not say anything related to grabbing the pilot's property. The part she mentioned about the pilot not talking back to her is her trying to position the pilot having a foul mood.
Now, if I'm the pilot's attorney, I would also ask the TSAer whether she is aware of the rampant burglary issues with the TSA screening process.
I agree with an earlier poster....a situation that got out of control by the idiocy of both parties.
Jul 18, 2009, 9:31 am
#78
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,704
Something I have found is that silence drives some TSAers crazy. I have gotten the extra treatment by not responding to "good morning" (it's not a "good morning" when I have to experience the TSA).
There something noticeably absent from her account.
She claims she "spoke to the pilot." Okay, that could mean she only said "Good Morning" or something innocuous like that.
If I were the pilot's attorney, here's the point I would pounce on: Usually, when people or agencies want to make the point of them "just doing their job" to the traveling public (and playing victim), they will say they said something like (in this case) "I'm going to re-arrange your items."
Her account didn't say that, so I'm going to want to know exactly what she said. She likely just said something like "good morning" or "hello," something not directly related to grabbing the pilot's items.
She also said she talked to the pilot, and THEN he put his items in the bin. So, it was likely that she did not say anything related to grabbing the pilot's property. The part she mentioned about the pilot not talking back to her is her trying to position the pilot having a foul mood.
Now, if I'm the pilot's attorney, I would also ask the TSAer whether she is aware of the rampant burglary issues with the TSA screening process.
I agree with an earlier poster....a situation that got out of control by the idiocy of both parties.
There something noticeably absent from her account.
She claims she "spoke to the pilot." Okay, that could mean she only said "Good Morning" or something innocuous like that.
If I were the pilot's attorney, here's the point I would pounce on: Usually, when people or agencies want to make the point of them "just doing their job" to the traveling public (and playing victim), they will say they said something like (in this case) "I'm going to re-arrange your items."
Her account didn't say that, so I'm going to want to know exactly what she said. She likely just said something like "good morning" or "hello," something not directly related to grabbing the pilot's items.
She also said she talked to the pilot, and THEN he put his items in the bin. So, it was likely that she did not say anything related to grabbing the pilot's property. The part she mentioned about the pilot not talking back to her is her trying to position the pilot having a foul mood.
Now, if I'm the pilot's attorney, I would also ask the TSAer whether she is aware of the rampant burglary issues with the TSA screening process.
I agree with an earlier poster....a situation that got out of control by the idiocy of both parties.
The attorney can only really go after what's alleged in the complaint. If TSA doesn't go into full detail in a media release there's not much the pilot's attorney can do with that.
I'd like to see the full complaint (police report) before I make any judgments.
Jul 18, 2009, 9:41 am
#80
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,704
Dean, there may be a point to it, but that doesn't mean that it's permitted to do so. There's a security concern here, and I don't mean aviation security. There are TSOs who steal. You know that. And, of course, I don't mean you or the people who you supervise --you're one of the good guys. There are times when my carry-on bag is full and I'm not wearing a jacket. I'll put my ($2,000) watch, my ($300) pen, my ($500) cellphone and any other metallic objects in the bin with my shoes (sometimes I'll put them in my shoes).
I really need to upgrade the monetary quality of my friends......
Jul 18, 2009, 9:43 am
#81
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,704
Jul 18, 2009, 10:03 am
#82
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,883
......Heck, I should have had a field day with the TSO in Toledo who claims he had no choice but to "resolve" the zipper in my fly after he hit it with the wand and it beeped. No belt, ordinary pair of blue jeans. Idiot probed the full length of my freakin' zipper with his hands looking for prohibited objects. That's way too much contact.
Jul 18, 2009, 10:18 am
#83
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 270
Is all that part of the criminal complaint, or is it media release? I can't seem to find it anywhere. If it's part of the criminal complaint, is that all of it?
The attorney can only really go after what's alleged in the complaint. If TSA doesn't go into full detail in a media release there's not much the pilot's attorney can do with that.
I'd like to see the full complaint (police report) before I make any judgments.
The attorney can only really go after what's alleged in the complaint. If TSA doesn't go into full detail in a media release there's not much the pilot's attorney can do with that.
I'd like to see the full complaint (police report) before I make any judgments.
http://epwsgdp1.courts.state.va.us/g...do?index=index
search:
Newport News General District Criminal Court
Case GC09006637-00
Jul 18, 2009, 10:27 am
#84
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 270
exactly right. the wand is not, repeat, not to touch you or it will beep. i get my orthopedic shoes wanded every time and i watch the screener like a hawk. on several occasions, "i beeped due to contact" where i immediately told the screener to stop what they were doing, and try again without having the wand touch my shoes. once i even got a bummed out look from the screener along the lines of "i was trying to catch you but you caught me" when i told him that it beeps just like when you test it by hitting your hand with it so please wand me without contact
Unfortunately, this was a few years back, on one of those days where I was running late to a flight for a business meeting that I did not have the option to miss, so I got stuck with the DYWFT line.
I had not yet been enlightened by Flyertalk. As a typical uneducated traveler, I knew it was wrong, but did not have enough knowledge of the TSA limits, nor of a formal complaint process. Seriously, I think most people think these guys are LEOs, not wannabes. It would be different today.
(In a way it was almost humorous. TSA dude says "It's OK, I'm gonna use the back of my hand," before he runs it up and down my fly. Like that makes a difference.)
Jul 18, 2009, 10:34 am
#85
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,704
No complaint text, but Mr. Karnath is scheduled to appear on July 29th.
http://epwsgdp1.courts.state.va.us/g...do?index=index
search:
Newport News General District Criminal Court
Case GC09006637-00
http://epwsgdp1.courts.state.va.us/g...do?index=index
search:
Newport News General District Criminal Court
Case GC09006637-00
Jul 18, 2009, 10:49 am
#86
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 184
Is the TSA even pursuing this? Looks to me like Bell is personally going after Karnath. Based on what I've read, I'd even further speculate that it was such a BS non issue incident that her supervisor didn't want to get involved nor anyone else from TSA ... maybe she was just too personally pissed to let it go and pursued it outside the scope of her TSA employment?
Besides, wouldnt someone besides Bell be listed as the complainant if the TSA were trying to put their weight behind it? And wouldnt they be tacking on other charges (interfering, etc)?
Besides, wouldnt someone besides Bell be listed as the complainant if the TSA were trying to put their weight behind it? And wouldnt they be tacking on other charges (interfering, etc)?
Jul 18, 2009, 10:57 am
#87
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,704
Is the TSA even pursuing this? Looks to me like Bell is personally going after Karnath. Based on what I've read, I'd even further speculate that it was such a BS non issue incident that her supervisor didn't want to get involved nor anyone else from TSA ... maybe she was just too personally pissed to let it go and pursued it outside the scope of her TSA employment?
Besides, wouldnt someone besides Bell be listed as the complainant if the TSA were trying to put their weight behind it? And wouldnt they be tacking on other charges (interfering, etc)?
Besides, wouldnt someone besides Bell be listed as the complainant if the TSA were trying to put their weight behind it? And wouldnt they be tacking on other charges (interfering, etc)?
Of course, the individual can still file individual charges with a local agency.
Jul 18, 2009, 12:13 pm
#88
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MIA
Programs: PC Plat/Amb
Posts: 1,152
Obviously, the TSA did not file the charges, as it is in State court. That doesn't preclude them from further involvement though, as there is no double jeopardy for seperate jurisdictions.
They could, conceivably, await the results of the A&B case to see if it will fly in District Court.
Personally, if the facts are basically as presented, I'd hate to see a pilot's career ruined over a non-performance related lapse in judgment.
They could, conceivably, await the results of the A&B case to see if it will fly in District Court.
Personally, if the facts are basically as presented, I'd hate to see a pilot's career ruined over a non-performance related lapse in judgment.
Jul 18, 2009, 1:09 pm
#90
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,704
Obviously, the TSA did not file the charges, as it is in State court. That doesn't preclude them from further involvement though, as there is no double jeopardy for seperate jurisdictions.
They could, conceivably, await the results of the A&B case to see if it will fly in District Court.
Personally, if the facts are basically as presented, I'd hate to see a pilot's career ruined over a non-performance related lapse in judgment.
They could, conceivably, await the results of the A&B case to see if it will fly in District Court.
Personally, if the facts are basically as presented, I'd hate to see a pilot's career ruined over a non-performance related lapse in judgment.