Interestingly enough, I had a discussion about the TSA this weekend with a cousin who is a civics teacher (oh, the irony...). She thinks the TSA is great and loves having them at the airport.

Except she didn't know that boxcutters were allowed before 9/11. Or that you can still take them on planes. Or that the liquid scare is scientifically impossible. Or that reinforced cockpit doors exist. I didn't even get started with the strip search machines.

Afterward, she said, "Well, I guess that we have the same goals, to have security at the airport. It's the implementation that is the problem."

Well, yeah, but I know she wasn't convinced. It's all about getting the information out there.

Actually, I always like when he does that.

I'd like to believe you, but if the TSA ever made the big catch, after the group had been rounded up, there would be press releases and award ceremonies.

No one in this country has forgotten that there are people trying to harm us. Every time I turn on the TV and watch a press conference, read a newspaper or listen to the "if you see something, say something" ads, I'm reminded of it. Government officials use terrorism as an excuse anytime they need funding. Defense contractors have made a killing. Dick Cheney will live to be 147 years old, sustained by our national fear, which he feeds off of.

In fact, it's this national paranoia that allowed the TSA to even consider the WBI machines. Ten years ago, we'd have told the government to shove it. Now, we roll over, grab our ankles and ask for more.

Mike

Former Senior TSA SpokesHole Ellen Howe used the term �post 9/11 world� twice in her latest blog post criticizing EPIC a few weeks ago. I�m not sure if she was lying, being stupid, or a combination of both, but I�m not seeing what EPIC was misrepresenting on their site.

The Lesson of 9/12/2001

What's the lesson of 9/12? That life goes on.

If you want to rethink 9/11, then one other arena you might rethink it in is the 9/11 Commission. Is there anything in law that says this cannot be reopened or done over from scratch? Would love to know. And if so, next time around without skewed findings and cover-ups and disallowed testimony galore. Also, next time, let's not have a disgusting pig like Bush appointee(s) such as former Gov. Tom Keane of NJ speaking to families of 9/11 victims in that manner ever, ever again. Thank you.

As far as the TSA, if in fact as they said in the early days after 9/11 that there's plentiful evidence to suggest that there more "moles" in this country just waiting to strike again at a time that has nothing to do with our calculation of when they should strike, then why would they just try a modified version of their previous m.o.? It would make much better sense to try something new well out of the range of TSA's limited capabilities, e.g., those surface-to-air missiles which in fact I've never heard we're safe against at either take-off or landing.

Ok, I give up.

Are you referring to military? Or is there some other reference you're making?

One person's reason is another person's quackery.

But you keep leaving that out, conveniently or not. At least your posts convey the assumptions that the pilots are going to keep going on with the flight plan and do nothing to disrupt the attack.

Another is that a lot of the pilots would be chickensh!t. Remember, a lot of those airline pilots are former military.

I agree with law dawg that to successfully take over a plan you have to use a little shock and awe and that the biggest obstacle to taking over a plane, is the cockpit door.

My point when I started this thread was that we need to stop using 9/11 as moral justification for things.

Link?

Sorry, but I'm not going to discuss TTP's my brother has shared with me.

No. Private contracted security, and it is deployed in the HOA. Not on every ship - only by the owners who want to make sure their ships aren't hijacked.

If the cockpit crew can cut off oxygen flow to the emergency mask in the cabin then just popping the outflow valve open while at cruise altitude would disorient everyone and within a short time ( couple of minutes at 35,000 feet) all would be unconscious from lack of oxygen.

Rapid decompression on top of no oxygen would stop any attempt of a takeover quickly. Throw in some aggressive maneuvering just for good measure and I think the situation would be contained.

The only problem would be to determine who the bad guys are before everyone expires.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2331/secure.jpg

If you agree with that person then I doubt whether you believe that we need to stop using 9/11 as a moral justification for things. His existence depends on such a mindset after all. And as far as link, you can find those hearings archived in more than one place I'm sure.

These things have one one major fact in common, they were all proven to be isolated incidents with no ties to terror cells or anything even remotely related to organized groups. Of course they are going to publicize these because they show that the system works to catch things. The system is not 100% effective and not perfect, I know that, you know that and the head shed knows that. Hence the reason we have R & D, new tech evaluations and new procedures come up from time to time. I also think that the people in charge of intel and other sections would quarantine a person caught with ties to some cell or organization until they chase those other members down, then publicize the whole thing (keep in mind, it is not like tv where the loonie breaks after 2 minutes of mean talking). There are things caught all the time, people caught all the time and most of the stuff caught is not publicized simply because there is so much happening. I think that if TSA caught a group of loonies trying to take over a plane or bomb one they probably would send things out in triplicate. If TSA catches individuals, not so much.

All that R&D will surely be helpful while TSA screens all passengers but allows untold numbers of airport employees/workers to enter the sterile area unscreened.

I think there is another thread going that has the word for this plan.

There was an NPR program about the commission months ago. According to one of the members who was interviewed, the Commission had a dead line, and about the time they were beginning to get really great information and digging into the gritty details, their time was up. It is too bad they didn't get to finish the job.

Before you can react you have to know there's a problem. Remember they can't see anything and have to rely on either a call from the back or hearing and discerning what's happening, which is difficult in a plane at altitude.

Lots of military and LEOs have frozen when faced with lethal force, me included. My first critical incident I didn't react well. It happens. And that incident, while lethal force, was nowhere the degree of a hijacking.