A suburban Chicago train was stopped and passengers searched by heavily armed police. Thousands of people on that and followig trains were delayed.

A Secret Service agent who was taking the train for the first time because of the weather identified himself as a law enforcement officer, stated he had a gun and asked if there were metal detectors before getting on the train.

I really don't want to say it but ........

Article Here

Well. The story goes both ways on this one.

So you have one group saying he identified himself verbally, the other group saying he didn't identify himself at all (and I suppose the argument could be made that, if he didn't display his credentials, then he didn't "really" identify himself).

He said, she said � so what really happened?

This is Chicago. I live in Chicago now and had to listen to this story ALL day on the radio. I believe the Secret Service Agent to the 1000th degree. The funny part is that I ride the METRA occasionally and have noticed other PC LEO's carrying and never thought twice about the fact that there was or was not a metal detector. Chicago has ABSURD and unconstitutional gun laws but that is for another forum. The only reason I point that out is because when I notice a gun now, it makes it that much more significant in my mind. I'll stay in the car with the PC LEO any day of the week.

Chicago Secret Service are complete dingalings. I have had personal experience dealing with them and know how first hand how accusatory, racist and thugish they really are.

While you may be correct (I have no experience with those people), Metra also has a history of paranoid overreactions up to and including arrest and abuse of innocent photographers on public property.

While it may have been prudent to stop the train in Lisle and have Lisle police interview the agent (assuming that he did not identify himself as a LEO to the ticket agent), that doesn't explain the 1.5 hour stop, evacuation of the train, search of the other passengers, etc.)

In fact, this sounds a lot like the absurd "rescreenings" that happen to airline passengers if a small pointy object happens to be found in a seat pocket.

This sounds like a great way to search a whole lot of people and places w/o probable cause. Just have someone with a gun ("We didn't know he was an officer.") walk by a house, into a business, etc. Instant exigent circumstances.

Edit: And we have a new SCOTUS ruling that would seem to support this idea. All you need is that the cop doing the search is not aware of the situation.

Lots of lunacy in Naperville and Lisle yesterday.

Naperville ticket agent was an idiot for thinking a bad guy would admit carrying a gun and would ask about metal detectors.

Naperville ticket agent compounded their idiocy by allowing him to board if they had any suspicion. Calling the police AFTER he boarded was really stupid.

The Barney Fife in charge of the Lisle PD who set in motion the response (responding with semiauto rifles and searching every passenger) was beyond belief.

This incident made the TSA look good by comparison, and that's not easy.

Sounds like a few of the Chicken Littles from DC have moved to Chicago.

Y'all can have 'em.

Naperville Sun / Chicago Sun Times Article: http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/n...011409.article

Its not really as simple as just pulling over the train and interviewing the agent -- the police department didn't know who the person with the gun was; all they had was the vague description from the ticket agent. From the Naperville Sun:

"It turns out the questions raised were being asked by a U.S. Secret Service agent. A special agent of the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad police made the identification, according to a Naperville police report, but not before a commotion stranded thousands of commuters for more than an hour."


First of all, I think that the ticket agent should be applauded. You can criticize the police response, but without a doubt it should be the police who make the call as to what security actions to take, not some ticket agent. We don't want any transit officials ever to feel like they have to second-guess their instincts -- if they seem something suspicious, report it, and let the police decide whether its credible.

As far as boarding the train, there really isn't anything the ticket agent could do short of stopping the train -- Metra runs open platforms and there is pretty much nothing to stop you from just walking on the train. The ticket agents, furthermore, are behind glass walls, so they can't exactly stop people -- from the Naperville Sun article:

Police said the ticket agent "attempted to watch the subject; however, based on his vantage point, he could not see where the subject went. He believed the subject boarded a train, however, because he was so alarmed at the question and demeanor (of) the subject, (the ticket agent) could not remember if the subject purchased a ticket."

If there was a security concern, the ticket agent could have tried to hold the train... why that was not done, I don't know...but the Lisle train station is the next station down, and no additional passengers had boarded when the police intercepted the train.

Also, as a point of clarification, while the Lisle Police Department carried the automatic weapons, I believe it was the Naperville Police Department that made the call to search the train.

Did they overreact? I don't know -- it is silly to compare this to a TSA screening after a bottle of toothpaste makes it through security; they had strong reason to believe someone with a gun was on the train. I imagine the semi-automatic weapons are their MO when it comes to dealing with armed suspects. They certainly could have handled it better, though.

Frankly, I place the blame on the secret service agent. Why does an armed law enforcement officer not need to identify himself to the train conductor when boarding? That would solve everything. When a LEO is onboard an aircraft, they have to identify themselves to the pilot. Seems like a commuter train should be run the same way.

Sounds like more of the "Sky is falling" nonsense. Besides, isn't everyone in Chicago armed???

Chicago has some of the most if not the most activist anti gun laws in the country. Chicago is still honored to be murder city USA for 2008 with the highest murder count of any US city despite its small size compared to the majors.

This forum is not the place to get into Chicago's flaunting the constitution with its gunlaws, so I will not.

Small size? Majors? NYC and LA are the only larger US cities.

Looking at the homicide stats, Chicago is right next to Dallas and Houston for murder rate (2007). I may disagree with Chicago's gun laws, but I don't think you can say too much from the murder rate.

The 2008 murder increase is troubling though.

Ummm...you are correct and you made my point thank you. NYC and LA are larger, by over a million people, NYC by 5 million people and Chicago still has higher murder numbers.

In my first post, I was just trying to soften the statistics blow by saying "small size" and keep yet another thread from going emotional. If you factor population in, the murder numbers are simply atrocious. A million fewer people in the case of LA and still more murders with MUCH tougher gun laws. Come on Mayor D.

And NYC also has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, yet it is among the safest cities, and the safest big city. Safer than all big cities with liberal gun laws.

Unless your point is that gun laws cannot be so easily correlated with murder rates, I most certainly did not make your point.

The last time I took Metra from Naperville (granted, it would have been in 1988), there was no way for a ticket agent to stop you from boarding. You could even buy your ticket on board if you wanted. Makes sense since the ticket booth isn't staffed all day. Which is my experience with every metro train service I've used.

I agree that wait till the suspect boarded the train was odd. Waiting till he walked away from the ticket window would have been fine, but then again those trains come every few minutes in the morning. That the ticket agent had time to keep track of the suspect while selling tickets suggest that there wasn't much ticket selling going on (most folks probably bought a wad in advance).