FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   PHL Shoe Incident (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/830893-phl-shoe-incident.html)

ND Sol Jun 8, 2008 7:16 pm


Originally Posted by SgtScott31 (Post 9845006)
No "laws" involved. Someone simply at the airport to take photos will be questioned. Refusal to cooperate as to their intentions will result in their removal of the airport. As I say refuse to cooperate and refuse to leave, you end up in jail. Challenge it in the courts if you are so sure of yourself.

I feel sad for our country when an LEO says such things.



Originally Posted by SgtScott31 (Post 9845006)
Not a huge catch, but a catch involving surveillance practices and substantial money/goods losses (involving aircraft). I do not know why you keep saying arrests and "public record." It is getting old. If you want some arrests involving the air transportation sector, do some googling. I do not need to prove myself to you or anyone else. To imply that I am lying is showing some lack of maturity on your end. I have no reason to fabricate stories.

All I was requesting was the arrests (and convictions if they had so occurred) related to the "large scale criminal plans" you referred to earlier - nothing more. And now you say it was not a huge catch? :confused: I never asked for info on any other incidents. This board is pretty good at ferreting out and posting that information.


Originally Posted by SgtScott31 (Post 9845006)
I am done with this thread. I am not in the convincing business for those who are set in their ways. I have been in the field long enough to know what I can and cannot do, and what will hold in the courts in my area. With a 100% conviction rate on my part, I am more than happy to do what I need to do.

In my field, I don't have the hubris to believe that I know everything I can and cannot do. My field is always evolving and I learn from others. New cases and laws come out on a daily basis.

Spiff Jun 8, 2008 7:43 pm


Originally Posted by SgtScott31 (Post 9845006)
No "laws" involved. Someone simply at the airport to take photos will be questioned. Refusal to cooperate as to their intentions will result in their removal of the airport. As I say refuse to cooperate and refuse to leave, you end up in jail. Challenge it in the courts if you are so sure of yourself.

If you've ever wondered why some of the public really doesn't care how "dangerous" a job law enforcement is - look only to what you've typed for your answer.

I'll never give a dime to the FOP and keep right on reading when I see stories in the paper of so-called "dangerous" situations that law enforcement officers get into because they have chosen to harass the general public.

red456 Jun 9, 2008 5:14 am


Originally Posted by ND Sol (Post 9846968)
In my field, I don't have the hubris to believe that I know everything I can and cannot do. My field is always evolving and I learn from others. New cases and laws come out on a daily basis.


Posted by Wally Bird: Is that clear to everyone now ? Take a photo in a public place (BNA) and you will be questioned. Probable cause ? Terry stop ? Not important, remember there are no laws involved. You will be questioned because Sgt. Scott thinks you deserve to be questioned. Object and you will be arrested.
Aren't the cops at airports usually from the bottom of the barrel?

mikeef Jun 9, 2008 8:46 am


Originally Posted by SgtScott31 (Post 9842216)
Keep believin...I guess it was always safe to fly pre 9/11 too....;)

Well, statistically speaking, yes, it was. The ride to the airport has always been a far more dangerous venture than the flight itself.

Mike

coachrowsey Jun 9, 2008 8:53 am


Originally Posted by red456 (Post 9848479)
Aren't the cops at airports usually from the bottom of the barrel?


NO.

essxjay Jun 9, 2008 2:34 pm


Originally Posted by red456 (Post 9848479)
Aren't the cops at airports usually from the bottom of the barrel?

I'm not following you. Why would you think that?

Wally Bird Jun 9, 2008 4:41 pm


Originally Posted by essxjay (Post 9851391)
I'm not following you. Why would you think that?

It depends on whether the airport cops are a detachment of a City or County PD or are a dedicated Airport or Port Authority PD. The latter are more likely to consist of personnel who could not get into a 'real' force. Gross generalization I concede, based solely on my local experience.

Either way it's a pretty cushy number compared to patrolling say, Compton or Liberty City. Not much chance of encountering serious crime, which is why they welcome the terrorist threat as it enhances their sense of self importance. In any case, Hill Street Blues they ain't.

CPT Trips Jun 9, 2008 11:37 pm


Originally Posted by oneofthosepeopleyouloveto hate (Post 9838861)
You know, our SOP is probably 100+ pages, and addresses many obscure situations that seldom are encountered in real life. (I have yet to be asked to screen a service monkey. :) ) (You really don't want to know everything that entails! :mad: ) (Fellow TSOs will know what I'm talking about here. ;) )

Forgive for having a momentary mental lapse, on one of my days off! I believe I said at the time I wasn't sure, but would check and get back to ya'll on this, which I did. :)



No. We have procedures for screening them that do not involve removal. For more information:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...rial_1370.shtm


I prefer you pull out the SOP book, review it and perform correctly than just wing it because you have too many SOPs to learn. Don't, for your convenience make up rules and demand shoe removal that is not required.

FWAAA Jun 10, 2008 1:10 am


Originally Posted by SgtScott31 (Post 9838122)
You are incorrect.

MNAA operates as a public corporation. We operate without local tax dollars, are self-financing within an annual, balanced budget, and have a bonding authority.

The board of commissioners sets policy. The President and staff recommend implement policy, develop administrative procedures and operate, maintain, plan & develop the Airports

The Authority collects fees, rentals, rates and other charges from airport users.

None of the above has anything to do with whether your airport is a public place.

The MNAA was created by the Nashville Council about 38 years ago, following passage of authorizing legislation by the TN legislature. MNAA is run by a 10 person board, nine of whom are appointed by the Mayor of Nashville, and the Mayor serves as the tenth board member.

Do you really believe that BNA is private property?

If so, you're sorely in need of remedial training. Oh, well. You're safe, since any damages flowing from abuses won't be paid by you personally - your employer, a government body, will pay those for you.

red456 Jun 10, 2008 6:49 am


Originally Posted by essxjay (Post 9851391)
I'm not following you. Why would you think that?

Why do I think that?

1. I believe that a couple of years ago there was discussion here about the cops at the airport which pretty much followed the line of Wally Bird's post.

2. The majority of the cops that I see at the airport (EWR so they are Port Authority cops) are grossly overweight. :D

Cee Jun 10, 2008 9:36 am


Originally Posted by red456 (Post 9854821)
2. The majority of the cops that I see at the airport (EWR so they are Port Authority cops) are grossly overweight. :D

The majority of america is grossly overweight!

ratracer Jun 10, 2008 9:50 am


Originally Posted by red456 (Post 9848479)
Aren't the cops at airports usually from the bottom of the barrel?

BOS is staffed by Troop F of the Mass. state police and posting to the Logan barracks iis considered to be a plum assignment, you need to be connected if you have hopes of transferring there.

ArizonaGuy Jun 10, 2008 9:59 am


Originally Posted by Cee (Post 9855599)
The majority of america is grossly overweight!

Which means overweight people are now average. :)

TMOliver Jun 10, 2008 2:34 pm

More than all that, as a Conservative, a supporter of consistent and appropriate law enforcement (and for the record for 8 years a City Council member and also a former member of an airport board and in my twilight years relegated to the second team as a member of the board of the Convention Center - security but not yet terrorists), I strongly suggest that to preserve the fiscal integrity of the local airport authority from costly litigation (and from the potential of his being named personally in a lawsuit), he would be wise to spend a little time, 2 or 3 hours of intensive briefing, with a skilled litigator with experience in municipal/governmental representation on the existence of a variety of federal and state court decisions (and even a few statutes on the books) that raise serious questions of his current perspectives and in some cases rash opinions.

Thankfully, be it in the military police, the shore patrol, the TSA or what is apparently an "Airport Police Agency" on an airport operated by a quasi-governmental authority, about as "private" as the water fountain outside City Council's chambers, SGTs don't yet make law, although have been known to impetuously and excessively enforce it.

Were I a hearty Libertarian searching for methods to demonstrate the sacred nature of individual rights, I'd encourage some young lass to whup out her digital and photograph away, simply looking to be apprehending for "blocking security", but accompanied by adequate witnesses to establish in court that the blocking alleged was purely a creation of the SGT's adversarial views toward permissible actions in public places. Ensuing would be one of those test cases which make the media ever so happy, cause city attorneys and prosecutors to tear out their hair, and insure that solemn judges meet out verbal chastisement against errant LEOs.

Sadly, I'm no longer that sort of crusader and will simply wait for the day when some poor buffoon gets unwarrantedly thumped by the SGT who is then transferred to painting the cross-hatching on traffic lanes where driving is banned...

docmonkey Jun 10, 2008 2:39 pm


Originally Posted by TMOliver (Post 9857430)
More than all that, as a Conservative, a supporter of consistent and appropriate law enforcement (and for the record for 8 years a City Council member and also a former member of an airport board and in my twilight years relegated to the second team as a member of the board of the Convention Center - security but not yet terrorists), I strongly suggest that to preserve the fiscal integrity of the local airport authority from costly litigation (and from the potential of his being named personally in a lawsuit), he would be wise to spend a little time, 2 or 3 hours of intensive briefing, with a skilled litigator with experience in municipal/governmental representation on the existence of a variety of federal and state court decisions (and even a few statutes on the books) that raise serious questions of his current perspectives and in some cases rash opinions.

Thankfully, be it in the military police, the shore patrol, the TSA or what is apparently an "Airport Police Agency" on an airport operated by a quasi-governmental authority, about as "private" as the water fountain outside City Council's chambers, SGTs don't yet make law, although have been known to impetuously and excessively enforce it.

Were I a hearty Libertarian searching for methods to demonstrate the sacred nature of individual rights, I'd encourage some young lass to whup out her digital and photograph away, simply looking to be apprehending for "blocking security", but accompanied by adequate witnesses to establish in court that the blocking alleged was purely a creation of the SGT's adversarial views toward permissible actions in public places. Ensuing would be one of those test cases which make the media ever so happy, cause city attorneys and prosecutors to tear out their hair, and insure that solemn judges meet out verbal chastisement against errant LEOs.

Sadly, I'm no longer that sort of crusader and will simply wait for the day when some poor buffoon gets unwarrantedly thumped by the SGT who is then transferred to painting the cross-hatching on traffic lanes where driving is banned...

Great post^^^


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 5:26 pm.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.