What will happen to the deleted passengers? :eek:

Okay, I’m not defending the use of mm-wave scanners but the comparisons to x-rays or MRI are not accurate.

Electromagnetic waves are called different things depending on the frequency. (Hz = cycles/second, MHz = million Hz, GHz = billion Hz, THz = trillion Hz)

30 - 300 MHz is VHF (as in TV, for example)
300 MHz - 1 GHz is UHF
1 - 40 GHz is microwave (microwave ovens are 2.4 GHz) 40 GHz – 300 GHz is millimetre wave.300 GHz - 400 THz is infrared. 400 – 770 THz is visible light, the frequencies to which the human eye responds.
770 – 30, 000 THz is ultraviolet (at this point we start talking in wavelength rather than using more units, but bear with me).
30,000 – 3 Billion THz is x-rays.

All of these things are electromagnetic waves, but the interaction with objects varies considerably. For example, the lower frequency bands pass through walls, while infrared and visible light don’t. Ultraviolet causes sunburn while VHF doesn’t. x-rays go through flesh but not bone, visible light doesn’t go through at all, low frequencies just go around you.

Millimetre-wave scanners are much much closer in frequency to mobile phones than they are to ultraviolet or to x-rays.

SchmeckFlyer has used the term “radiation” which is correct (energy travelling from one point to another), but shouldn’t be confused with nuclear radiation.

Another factor in comparing the risk of electromagnetic energy is power. A candle and a powerful spotlight both emit visible light; the spotlight is painful to look at while the candle is not. Microwave ovens use much higher powers than cordless phones in the same frequency band. The proposed scanners use low power levels; in fact, there are passive mm-wave sensors that measure naturally-occurring mm-waves (from the sun) as they are reflected off objects, rather than transmitting a mm-wave. There are some technical problems with using these in airports (such as having sufficient daylight inside) but the point is that the power you’re exposed to is not much more than you get from the sun when you’re outside.

ITTIA, the power from the mm-wave scanner is much less than x-rays, CT, etc and it shouldn’t cause any more harm than being near a mobile phone or out in the sun. Things like metal or plastic show up as bright spots against the darker background of the body. Depending on the size of the insulin pump and the resolution of the scanner, it may show up. What will TSA do about it? There’s probably cause to be concerned about that. :eek:

Michelle2385, it’s only meant to find things under clothing (ceramic knives, bags of drugs, etc) that wouldn’t alarm the WTMD. Whether such things are genuine risks to aviation is a different issue :rolleyes:, possibly of more interest to CBP.

There are clearly privacy issues and I worry about whether/how TSA will address them, but this is not the same as getting an x-ray.

If I hadn't read this yesterday, I would have thought it was an AFD joke.

The problem with all this zen mellow checkpoint on pot business is that it will probably put the TSO's to sleep so that banned items have a greater chance of getting past the checkpoint.

Maybe there is a bright side to this awful idea... I can't wait to draw swastika's on the foreheads, and Hitler moustache's on the upper lips of the TSO's depicted in the TSO biography posters. Bring 'em on Kippie! ^

<snicker><snort>

I think anybody who has followed an introductory physics course would come to the same conclusion. AFAIK, the technology uses radiation from somewhere near the IR spectrum, which is insufficient to penetrate skin. The dangers to health are thus non-existent or significantly inconsequential.

I made no comparisons to MRI technologies (to CT actually, totally different). MRIs do not even use radiation (an MRI machine is basically a giant, spinning magnet).

But the comparison to medical x-rays is apt, as it serves to illustrate the point that the dosage from these security body scanners is comparatively insiginifcant, considering a body scanner cannot "see" through skin whereas a medical x-ray goes right through tissue and bone (to an extent). Yet I have never heard of a case where a patient refused to be subjected to a medical x-ray due to fears of radiation poisening and/or cancer risk. (There is of course a risk, but minimal.) So refusing to be subjected to a body scanner on health grounds is, in my opinion, unfounded.

Refusing to submit based on privacy issues is much, much more relevant and actually has a firm basis. I can imagine the technology being abused in instances, where agents become peeping Toms...

Radiation is radiation - and exposure to any type of penetrating radiation is a health risk. If it's strong enough to penetrate clothing, then it's likely strong enough to touch and even penetrate at least some layers of skin, especially exposed skin.

If I want to sit out in the sun and get burned to increase my risk of health problems, that's a personal decision - the government cannot order me to go sit out in the sun and burn myself. Hence, the government cannot order me to enter a device, whose only source of consumer information is a government contracted laboratory, which emits any type of penetrating radiation, regardless of the power level. Truth be told, no one really knows the details of this device, except what has been released by the government, its contractor and Sandia Labs - none of which should be considered trustworthy sources of information.

There are plenty of people who refuse x-rays and other body scans unless medically necessary, due to cumulative exposure to the same.

The fact of the matter is, other technology is available which can do the same thing without using radiation waves - ultrasound, even at higher doses due to a lack of skin contact, is safer than penetrating light radiation.

I've been to plenty of checkpoints outside the US that used gravity for returning bins. Why we can't do the same boggles the mind. We need machines for this? :confused: I guess it isn't any good if it isn't expensive...

Is another good Workfare project, Comrade! State is working toward goal of full employment through "security".

But...but...but - those gravity machines depend on the screeners repeatedly LIFTING the bins to the feed level. Hundreds of bins an hour! They were hired to be screeners, and repeated lifting wasn't part of the job description then. Imagine the disability claims from repetitive stress injury! There would have to be a new category of TSA "Officers" then - the Bin Roustabouts - hired for their ability to lift and sling bins. ;)

My mental image of the gravity-feed-bin-conveyor-system (as designed by Halliburton in a no-bid contract of course) would be a mixed-breed mating of a Rube Goldberg contraption with a M. C. Escher impossible 3D stairway.

And then has a walk-through body scanner built into his front door.

What version of retaliatory SSSS do you think I'd get if I actually used that line at a checkpoint?

Sorry, Kippie -- Somebody figured this out a long time ago. How many millions of dollars of our money are you going to spend to figure it out all over again?

http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/CRT/C...~-008048IL.jpg

Yeah, right. I can't wait until the reports come in of the percentage of young women who are selectees versus the total.

Soon to be overheard on a headset near you: "Hey Bob, stop that one right there. Yeah, the hottie. I want to get a peek and see if those things are real."

The only plus side to this: These body scans will impact revenue. I don't care if the TSA says it will protect people's privacy. No one will believe them, and a certain percentage of people will stop flying because they don't want the TSA checking them out, real or imagined. And the only time the airlines get the guts to fight back is when the TSA hits the revenue line.

Mike

I must have missed it somewhere, but what are the headsets for?

There's one for the screener who herds the haraSSSSees into the Chamber of Secrets and there's one for the screener who remotely ogles the haraSSSSees in another room/area.