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-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   A Kinder, Gentler Screening (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/807025-kinder-gentler-screening.html)

MrAndy1369 Mar 31, 2008 1:58 pm

The comments on the blog seem to echo our concerns... is this a proposal or will this actually be coming true? I can't imagine all our checkpoints would be suddenly transformed this year.

Also, the mural wall would block the checkpoint from public view, if I read that correctly.

I also hate this statement by Kip:

People. The threat environment makes it clear that we need to add layers of security to be effective against adaptive terrorists. This means adding a capability to detect a potential problem even if they are not carrying anything prohibited -- in other words, more focus on people, not just things. That means deploying more officers specially trained in behavior detection and document checking to identify people that intend to do harm, not just waiting to find their prohibited item in a carry-on bag.
Smacks totally of thoughtcrime. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

I feel somewhat sickened. I usually try to support TSA, to see their side, but even this is going a bit too far.

Cee & other TSA'ers here - share your thoughts.

PTravel Mar 31, 2008 2:03 pm


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 9492389)
No more "barkers?" Where will they be transferred to?



Harmless, huh? Will the screener have to delete the image, or will going to the next victim automatically effect that process?

I'm glad I don't fly from BWI.

This is, I'm pretty sure, "millimeter x-ray," not "radio waves," as the article says. As someone who has had melanoma I am not, for one second, going to allow myself to be exposed to unnecessary x-ray radiation, nor do I intend to suffer a pat-down every time I fly. I see rough seas ahead. :mad:

MrAndy1369 Mar 31, 2008 2:16 pm

Then what's wrong with the X-RAY detectors we have now? I think what we have now works pretty well. Are they saying they won't have any of those X-RAY detectors?

Also, it shouldn't be TSA's responsibility to watch for suspicious behavior. If someone with "bad intentions" or "hostile intent" tries to pull something on a plane, it's pretty much guaranteed that aware passengers plus FAM's will have that passenger on the floor within a few minutes.

I think this is a waste of time and money. Just leave our checkpoints as it is - but educate TSA on how to have better customer service and perhaps give back the ID checking to private contractors or just abolish it altogether.


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 9496064)
This is, I'm pretty sure, "millimeter x-ray," not "radio waves," as the article says. As someone who has had melanoma I am not, for one second, going to allow myself to be exposed to unnecessary x-ray radiation, nor do I intend to suffer a pat-down every time I fly. I see rough seas ahead. :mad:


law dawg Mar 31, 2008 2:40 pm


Originally Posted by Andy1369 (Post 9496023)
The comments on the blog seem to echo our concerns... is this a proposal or will this actually be coming true? I can't imagine all our checkpoints would be suddenly transformed this year.

Also, the mural wall would block the checkpoint from public view, if I read that correctly.

I also hate this statement by Kip:


Smacks totally of thoughtcrime. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

I feel somewhat sickened. I usually try to support TSA, to see their side, but even this is going a bit too far.

Cee & other TSA'ers here - share your thoughts.

I don't find it thought crime as much as trying to catch something in the planning/intel gathering phase.

These people don't wake up one day and decide to hijack a plane. They plan it out in detail, up to and including lots of probing and dry runs. That's the place to catch the plot, not day of.

MKEbound Mar 31, 2008 2:49 pm

This story makes my skin crawl...like thinking of the neighborhood pedophile who goes all out decorating for Halloween to attract more kids to his house....

Spiff Mar 31, 2008 2:49 pm


Originally Posted by law dawg (Post 9496302)
I don't find it thought crime as much as trying to catch something in the planning/intel gathering phase.

These people don't wake up one day and decide to hijack a plane. They plan it out in detail, up to and including lots of probing and dry runs. That's the place to catch the plot, not day of.

The false positive rate for inspections and "catches" is completely unacceptable.

Discovery of such improbable "plots" should be 100% transparent to regular passengers. We should not be caught up in these incompetently executed inspections. :mad:

red456 Mar 31, 2008 2:57 pm


Originally Posted by Andy1369 (Post 9496023)


Smacks totally of thoughtcrime. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

I feel somewhat sickened. I usually try to support TSA, to see their side, but even this is going a bit too far.

Cee & other TSA'ers here - share your thoughts.

Smacks to me of even more rifling of wallets as well as reading documents brought through checkpoints.

It sounds as if Kippie and Skeletor are trying to get as many offensive policies in place before they leave as they possible can.

intheaircop Mar 31, 2008 3:01 pm

http://www.tsa.gov/evolution/innovation.shtm

The new uniform is cool looking. Now all they have to do is give then guns.

Wally Bird Mar 31, 2008 3:19 pm


Originally Posted by law dawg (Post 9496302)
I don't find it thought crime as much as trying to catch something in the planning/intel gathering phase.

These people don't wake up one day and decide to hijack a plane. They plan it out in detail, up to and including lots of probing and dry runs. That's the place to catch the plot, not day of.

Absolutely, but that's not what the Kipper is on about. He thinks his highly trained SPOTniks/beadyos and loupeys are going to make the Big Catch in the airport. viz:

more officers specially trained in behavior detection and document checking
All they will do is "catch" more illegal immigrants, college kids and other forgers. Security, my @ss !

law dawg Mar 31, 2008 3:20 pm


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 9496358)
The false positive rate for inspections and "catches" is completely unacceptable.

Discovery of such improbable "plots" should be 100% transparent to regular passengers. We should not be caught up in these incompetently executed inspections. :mad:

I want someone to do this. I'm not convincing TSOs are the best candidates, but I don't see anyone else lining up for the job.

Spiff Mar 31, 2008 3:22 pm


Originally Posted by law dawg (Post 9496540)
I want someone to do this. I'm not convincing TSOs are the best candidates, but I don't see anyone else lining up for the job.

What exactly is it that you want people to do?

bocastephen Mar 31, 2008 3:33 pm


Originally Posted by Andy1369 (Post 9496137)
Then what's wrong with the X-RAY detectors we have now? I think what we have now works pretty well. Are they saying they won't have any of those X-RAY detectors? ...

There are no x-ray detectors for people - just a metal detector, which is not the best way of detecting the presence of, or true shape of many items. X-ray devices are used to scan carry-on and checked bags, but again, it's not the best technology - CT/MRI is better, and is s-l-o-w-l-y being tested.

law dawg Mar 31, 2008 3:47 pm


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 9496547)
What exactly is it that you want people to do?

Behavior detection.

bocastephen Mar 31, 2008 4:02 pm


Originally Posted by law dawg (Post 9496678)
Behavior detection.

They are not doing behavior detection - they are combining a short intro class with guessing, silly questions and prejudice.

We need to get the rest of their house in order before we start looking at fancy extras - the meat and potatoes need to be fixed, like better checked and carry-on baggage scanning with on-the-fly liquid scanning, non-invasive full body scanning with chemical trace analysis, cargo screening, proper staffing levels, and a better attitude.

Get the A, B, Cs fixed before you start looking for X,Y,Zs to play with.

PTravel Mar 31, 2008 4:12 pm


Originally Posted by Andy1369 (Post 9496137)
Then what's wrong with the X-RAY detectors we have now? I think what we have now works pretty well. Are they saying they won't have any of those X-RAY detectors?

The x-ray detectors they have now are aimed at carry-ons, not passengers. I'd expect that they would continue to use them.


Also, it shouldn't be TSA's responsibility to watch for suspicious behavior. If someone with "bad intentions" or "hostile intent" tries to pull something on a plane, it's pretty much guaranteed that aware passengers plus FAM's will have that passenger on the floor within a few minutes.
TSA should, like virtually every other security service in the world, be focused on detecting bad actors, rather than bad possessions.


I think this is a waste of time and money. Just leave our checkpoints as it is - but educate TSA on how to have better customer service and perhaps give back the ID checking to private contractors or just abolish it altogether.
TSA accomplishes nothing -- it is security theater for the Kettles and Gomers who are nervous about flying.


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