birdstrike

It is a pity, because you are not safer. US security is off in an imaginary world of it's own that has little or no consideration of your safety.

That may be why you are the only one left supporting it.

donsig

...You and millions more of lemmings feel safer...that's what counts, you feel safer...well, you ain't.


TSA-Making The Throngs Feel Safe While The Tewowists Think.

bocastephen

There is a federal law on the books which makes it a crime for any government agent to read, copy or otherwise examine the written contents of a person's papers, documents, etc. without a warrant (I think a customs search is exempt, though).

The law was posted on here a couple years back, and I can't find that post, otherwise I would have re-posted it numerous times when a similar incident is reported.

The TSA can search your stuff for prohibited items - they cannot read your documents. If they attempt to do so, you should stop the search (taking away the papers if necessary), and call for a GSC and/or screening manager.

If we had the CFR number that covers this issue, it would be easier so you can quote it when forbidding the screener from reading your stuff.

Haveaniceday

Simmer down Andy. As stated before, those forms for the 'I refuse to show my ID to the government' secondarys are all about the airlines ID check and nothing about the shady passengers who hate the government. No passengers names are writen down on the form. TSA has even stopped putting down passengers names for all SSSS checks.

Wally Bird

Can you provide more details of these explosive passports being carried by criminals/terrorists who try to hide them from the TSA ?

I'm really, really scared now.

AisleSitter

What I would have done is simply kept my ID inside my wallet, and my passport in my pocket. If asked to empty my pockets, the wallet and passport would have remained in my hands at all times, and I would have refused any request to inspect them. TSA can inspect most things I am carrying, but there are limits. They can't require me to remove all of my clothing. And they can't inspect my wallet. I refuse. I believe a judge would back me up on that. And I certainly wouldn't have answered a bunch of nosy questions. Let's assume for purposes of this discussion that this is a thin wallet that obviously contains only cards and papers and does not contain metal.

Haveaniceday

In order to determine that there is no metal in your thin wallet it would need to be inspected by a TSO.

ND Sol

If the WTMD didn't alarm, then no reason to inspect. If the WTMD alarmed but the HHMD didn't on the pocket containing the wallet, then no reason to inspect.

erictank

The TSO is not a law-enforcement officer. He has no authority to do what you want him to. Referral of OP to a LEO for refusing to show ID to TSA is, IMO, a criminal abuse of authority, as is obtaining his personal information without his consent when he satisfied the established measures for no-ID screening.

How does he (the screener) know YOUR driver's license isn't stolen, or faked? How does he know YOU aren't an escaped convict?

Or else, "Get bent, fascist pigs, I'm following your own published rules - you'd better, as well."

There was an EXCELLENT article a while back on the fallacy of "It's okay, if you have nothing to hide, what are you worried about?" Let me see if I can find it again... Got it. Go here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...ract_id=998565 The paper should be free to download from any of several sites listed on that page. It's well worth reading.

That's okay - quite frankly, your comfort with someone who's following the established rules is not a prerequisite for his getting through the secondary groping and getting on the plane without showing ID. Nervous? YOU can get off the plane, no one's stopping you. He did what he was supposed to do. Your irrational paranoia about it is simply not relevant.

Except for the whole "ID =/= security" bit... OP was subjected to the requisite retaliatory screening for refusing to show ID, which screening ascertained that he was not in possession of any dangerous items such as bottled water, skin lotion, or 3.5oz of toothpaste. He did not alarm ANY monitors. In short, he satisfied the no-ID screening requirements. TSA's legitimate interest in and (reputedly-legitimate) authority over him ENDED RIGHT THERE. Personally, I'd be okay with sitting next to Osama Bin Laden on a commercial aircraft, if he actually cleared the screening process the general public is so enthusiastic about. Of course, I'd be making a call to the FBI to meet him at the arrival gate as soon as I recognized him, but if he's not carrying anything which can threaten the aircraft, what's the problem?

sbm12

They physically removed the passport from my hand when I removed it from my pocket. I said no and was basically given the DY...T treatment. My DL was in my bag and they took it out during the examination of my bag. The only other thing in my pocket was cash, and they did not require me to relinquish it.

I did not alarm the WTMD and I was not given a HHMD. I was given a physical pat-down, which is consistent with my experience with other secondaries. The big difference in this case is that the pat-down included my pockets, not just my ankles, arms and torso, and they did ask me to remove everything from my pockets to show them. As I said above, I was not given an option to maintain possession of my passport at that point.

As to the form that was filled out, it was the same form this weekend at EWR as it was in IAH and SEA (where I've seen them fill it out). It is a single page and has about 10 check-boxes for the "why" part of the event, including no id, expired, damaged, etc. They copied my name off the BP and put it on the form. They've done this every time I had a No ID event.

DevilDog438

To me, there exists no legally-justifiable reason to copy down your name from your B/P in a No-ID situation.

MrAndy1369

Did the private, contracted ID checkers do the same thing?

AisleSitter

I assume "they" is TSA. Then that's assault and battery. They can deny you entry, but nothing gives you the right to assault you. Inspection is done by consent. Consent does not include inspection of papers. Once an assault occurs, I'd call the police.

TerminalBliss

Really? How so and in what jurisdiction? Please provide links to the relevent statute(s).

TB

birdstrike

Isn't the simple definition of assault an action that causes fear of harmful or offensive action on the part of the victim?

Battery is touching in the furtherance of an assault.

If a TSA screener physically removed an ID from my grasp, I would say that counts as assault and battery.

I'm sure a lawyer or LEO will chime in here.