No ID secondary - "Show me your ID"

Old Mar 14, 08, 8:58 am
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No ID secondary - "Show me your ID"

So today's No ID effort was pretty successful, at least initially. The TDC took a minute to find the form, but she filled it out and sent we on my way with the SSSS marking.

Once I got through the WTMD (no alarm) I waited and eventually met with "K" and "A" to do my secondary screening. K seemed to be in charge and A was doing the swab tests. Another guy was briefly involved to do a patdown but no HHMD check. The patdown required me to divest myself of all items in my pockets. At this point all I had were my passport and some business cards.

Here's where I have issues. They repeatedly asked for my ID. I kept saying "No, I'm a No ID secondary." Eventually they went through all the pockets in my bags, including where my DL was stored, and he took my passport out of my shirt pocket. At this point we were also joined by a non-uniformed "guy" walking by who started looking at my BP as well. That got me a bit riled up until he identified himself as a FAM, which I stil found strange, but whatever. Once they found my IDs, K had no qualms about thumbing through the passport and going through all my CCs and Frequent Flier cards (a different stack in my bag). I protested and suggested that they shouldn't be reviewing my ID nor thumbing through my passport and both K and the FAM laughed off my objections. When making his notes K still had my ID out on the table, and I asked what info he was taking from it. He said none and I didn't see him write anything that appeared to be from my ID, so I guess that is somewhat OK, but still a bit unnerving.

What is the appropriate way to deal with this situation? I answered all the questions asked of me honestly (How much do you fly? Why are you going to ZZZ? Have you been there before? How long have you worked at your company?, etc.), but the ID thing still bothers me. Ultimately the secondary took about 15 minutes. No big deal in the end, but I'm still trying to figure out how to deal with actually not showing ID throughout the process.

Any thoughts?

S.
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Old Mar 14, 08, 9:04 am
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You'll have to find a better place to hide your ID's.

Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
Any thoughts?
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Old Mar 14, 08, 9:56 am
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Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
So today's No ID effort was pretty successful, at least initially. The TDC took a minute to find the form, but she filled it out and sent we on my way with the SSSS marking.
What form do they need to fill out to send you to SSSSecondary?
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Old Mar 14, 08, 10:00 am
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Thumbs down They should not have been thumbing through any of your docs

File a complaint form immediately.

Whether you chose to not present ID or not, their check is a "security/safety" (what has been referred to as an 'administrative' search) check and nothing else.

By them forcing you to empty your pockets and actually rummaging through your papers they went outside their SOPs.

File a complaint immediately!

I've had something similar happen to me when a TSO found my 'other' boarding pass that had already been marked SSSS but I had printed out 2 of the paper ones before checking luggage. He looked at me like "Why do you have two BPs for the same flight?", shrugged and continued w/the swabbing.

Seriously - that is a direct violation of the letter of the law for the purposes of the airport screening. Similarly to what the NYPD can do here for subway riders who haven't entered the station. The police can only look for suspicious items and cannot review/evaluate/read/note anything other than whether the backpack/purse/bag contains said suspicious items.

Anything else is beyond the scope of their allowed duties.
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Old Mar 14, 08, 10:18 am
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Originally Posted by bfetch View Post
File a complaint form immediately.

Whether you chose to not present ID or not, their check is a "security/safety" (what has been referred to as an 'administrative' search) check and nothing else.

By them forcing you to empty your pockets and actually rummaging through your papers they went outside their SOPs. File a complaint immediately!
Are you a TSO? Have you looked at the SOP?



Anything else is beyond the scope of their allowed duties.
Though I personally don't rummage thru peoples documents, and I don't see my screeners rummaging thru peoples documents...you apparently don't know anything about the "scope of our allowed duties".

File a complaint? About what? "The screener made me empty my pockets for secondary screening"? Though looking at someones travel documents may be unnecessary, it is hardly complaint worthy.
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Old Mar 14, 08, 10:30 am
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Originally Posted by Cee View Post
Are you a TSO? Have you looked at the SOP?





Though I personally don't rummage thru peoples documents, and I don't see my screeners rummaging thru peoples documents...you apparently don't know anything about the "scope of our allowed duties".

File a complaint? About what? "The screener made me empty my pockets for secondary screening"? Though looking at someones travel documents may be unnecessary, it is hardly complaint worthy.
Emphasis mine
  1. It has NOTHING to do with airport security
  2. It is an unwarranted invasion of privacy
  3. It is a violation of our 4th Amendment rights (IOW, unconstitutional)

If I alarm on the WTMD, send me to the SSSS pit. If I alarm on the HHMD and the alarm is in the area of my left front pocket (where I keep my wallet) - feel free to make me remove my wallet and rewand the area. If the alarm disappears, feel free to HHMD my wallet. If it alarms, you may REQUEST my permission to continue a search. If it does not alarm, return it to me IMMEDIATELY without violating my 4th Amendment right to be secure in my person and possessions in the absence of probable cause or a court-issued warrant.
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Old Mar 14, 08, 10:31 am
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Originally Posted by Cee View Post
Though I personally don't rummage thru peoples documents, and I don't see my screeners rummaging thru peoples documents...you apparently don't know anything about the "scope of our allowed duties".

File a complaint? About what? "The screener made me empty my pockets for secondary screening"? Though looking at someones travel documents may be unnecessary, it is hardly complaint worthy.
Reading a person's documents extends beyond the boundaries of the administrative search. If the SOP permits reading of personal documents, I would be surprised. Reading through documents can even taint the attorney-client privilege.

And the OP's concerns were more than just travel documents related to the flight. The TSO went through CC's and other cards as well.
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Old Mar 14, 08, 10:38 am
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Originally Posted by Cee View Post
File a complaint? About what? "The screener made me empty my pockets for secondary screening"? Though looking at someones travel documents may be unnecessary, it is hardly complaint worthy.
Huh? Most things you've written seem pretty rational, so this one surprises me.

What is it with TSA justifying or brushing off as irrelevant reading documents in the possession of the passenger? Seriously. They keep ignoring this issue on the blog too.

Reading through someones credit-cards, library cards, membership cards, health-insurance cards, etc. in a wallet is a giant invasion of personal privacy and a tremendous aid to identity theft. Reading off someone's international travel history from their passport is completely unwarranted, another invasion of personal privacy, and again completely unrelated to the mission of TSA.
(Setting aside my feelings about equating ID with security for the moment,) TSA's business at reading my stuff ends at my government-issued photo ID card, or at the photo page of my passport.

Do you support TSA reading papers in someone's briefcase? Perusing the titles, authors, and reviews of books in their bag? Booting their laptop and reading their email? What if the documents are confidential, or attorney-client privileged? Where do you draw the line?

What possible legitimate use could TSA have for this info, other than either 1) identity theft, 2) harassment/intimidation, or 3) denial of travel for reasons completely unrelated to TSA's mission and beyond the scope of TSA's jurisdiction and expertise.

Above all, ink printed on paper or plastic can in no way be construed as being a prohibited item or concealing a prohibited item. It is not a weapon; it is not explosive; and it is none of TSA's business.
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Old Mar 14, 08, 10:51 am
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Originally Posted by Cee View Post
xThough looking at someones travel documents may be unnecessary, it is hardly complaint worthy.
Yes, it is most definitely worthy of a complaint as if it's not stopped immediately such practices will inevitably escalate to the point where a screener will feel free to look through any and all of one's documents. We've seen it and heard about it many, many times.

Was it here or on the blog that I read about a screener who looked through all the papers that a young student was carrying with him, i.e., his homework assignments!
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Old Mar 14, 08, 10:58 am
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I'm wondering also what form they need to fill? I thought all you had to do was tell the ID checker you didn't have ID, and you'd just be escorted to the "SSSS line"? I didn't know there was a form included? Can you elaborate on that?

Cee, I'm surprised to see you write that...as another poster has said, most of what you've written so far has been rational... why should TSA screeners look through someone's wallet and/or written documents? Their purpose is to check for explosives or prohibited items - nothing else.
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Old Mar 14, 08, 11:00 am
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Originally Posted by Cee View Post
Are you a TSO? Have you looked at the SOP?

Though I personally don't rummage thru peoples documents, and I don't see my screeners rummaging thru peoples documents...you apparently don't know anything about the "scope of our allowed duties".

File a complaint? About what? "The screener made me empty my pockets for secondary screening"? Though looking at someones travel documents may be unnecessary, it is hardly complaint worthy.

Absolutely file a complaint...and as far as "scope of allowed duties"....what a joke! What is that? ...some super dupper secret code of operations of TSO's that no one on earth can view that spells out how to properly fondle breasts, get credit card numbers, steal and pilfer, and violate constitutional rights without being liable.....?

If this "scope of allowed duties" actually exists...POST IT. Oh, I forgot, its "secret".....whatta load of crap....Guvamint speak for "do whatcha wanta do"


TSA-Scoping Out Tewowists While Screwing Amerika.
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Old Mar 14, 08, 11:01 am
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I answered all the questions asked of me honestly (How much do you fly? Why are you going to ZZZ? Have you been there before? How long have you worked at your company?, etc.),
Speaking of out of bounds .. I wouldn't put it past them to presume to ask you these types of questions, but, you don't have to answer them. What are they going to do, SSSS you again? These questions are none of their business!
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Old Mar 14, 08, 11:05 am
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much View Post
Speaking of out of bounds .. I wouldn't put it past them to presume to ask you these types of questions, but, you don't have to answer them. What are they going to do, SSSS you again? These questions are none of their business!
Amen - my favorite answer: silence. The TSA cannot compel you to answer any questions posed.
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Old Mar 14, 08, 11:05 am
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Also, I didn't realize that if you got a SSSS, TSA would ask you all those kinds of questions? When I got a SSSS in Nov, I was just given a pat down. That's it.

What's with the forms if you have no ID, additional questioning during SSSS? Is this new? Or have I missed something?
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Old Mar 14, 08, 11:11 am
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It seems like from the story that the TSA officer chose to look through the OPs documents 'because he could'. No one is going to come through his checkpoint with ID and refuse to show it. Someone needs their wings clipped. "How do you like that, Mr. funny-man...I AM looking at your ID and passport and whatever else I want to."

I'd have ignored the questions, but then again, I wasn't in your shoes.
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