VIPR on the Border
Mar 4, 2008 | 2:40 pm
#1
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VIPR on the Border
TSA - this is NOT your mission!!! Get it through your thick skulls.
http://www.tsa.gov/press/happenings/san_vipr.shtm
Stop spinning this PR crap as something useful, while you continue dragging your heals on new technology, abusing passengers, failing to screen cargo, and flat out failing your screening audits on normal, everyday passenger bags.
Enough already!
Mar 4, 2008 | 2:49 pm
#3
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Bolding mine:
FAMs? On a trolley? Regardless of one's opinion on the FAM program, what a waste of resources.
Arrests for warrants and identification? How can you be arrested for identification when there is no law requiring you to carry ID and no requirement (implied or actual) to produce ID to ride the San Diego trolley?
And even in this screwed-up era, is a court really going to hold up what is essentially a roving team of law-enforcement accosting individuals in a public place in the city and checking them for ID and outstanding warrants. Papers please? Doesn't it shatter the whole "airports are a special case" argument if this sort of thing is allowed?
Originally Posted by TSA PR
Two VIPR teams, consisting of San Diego Police Department, San Diego Metropolitan Transit Police, Federal Bureau of Investigation/Joint Terrorism Task Force, Customs and Border Protection, Federal Air Marshals, TSA-certified K9 units, TSA Behavior Detection and Bomb Appraisal Officers and, conducted highly visible patrols and limited screening of suspicious passengers as well as covert operations.
The operation reported over 3,000 contacts with Trolley passengers on the first day, with 21 citations being issued, and four arrests for warrants, immigration issues and identification.
The operation reported over 3,000 contacts with Trolley passengers on the first day, with 21 citations being issued, and four arrests for warrants, immigration issues and identification.
Arrests for warrants and identification? How can you be arrested for identification when there is no law requiring you to carry ID and no requirement (implied or actual) to produce ID to ride the San Diego trolley?
And even in this screwed-up era, is a court really going to hold up what is essentially a roving team of law-enforcement accosting individuals in a public place in the city and checking them for ID and outstanding warrants. Papers please? Doesn't it shatter the whole "airports are a special case" argument if this sort of thing is allowed?
Mar 4, 2008 | 6:12 pm
#4
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How do they arrest people on warrants while riding a trolley?
"Sure, here is my ID. By the way, you should call me in because I have been a bad boy and have an outstanding warrant."
Where is the probable cause? I didn't think California had a "ID carry" law. So if they think you are acting "suspicious" then just tell them where to go as you get off at the next stop.
"Sure, here is my ID. By the way, you should call me in because I have been a bad boy and have an outstanding warrant."
Where is the probable cause? I didn't think California had a "ID carry" law. So if they think you are acting "suspicious" then just tell them where to go as you get off at the next stop.
Mar 4, 2008 | 6:17 pm
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Mar 4, 2008 | 6:40 pm
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This happened 50 yards from the border with Mexico. In such a locale, is there a requirement that one produce ID or other documentation proving one is in the US legally? I know BICE has checkpoints many miles from the border in Arizona...
Mar 4, 2008 | 7:22 pm
#7
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TSA should concentrate on airports, and leave operations near the border to duly certified law enforcement officers, such as Border Patrol. It is admirable that somebody now thinks the border should be guarded, but TSA personnel have more than enough to do at airports. As for using Federal Air Marshals on the border, why remove them from airliners? I thought they were specially trained to operate in confined fuselages of passenger airplanes.
Mar 4, 2008 | 9:06 pm
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I guess TSA is so confident of their plane screening procedures they now feel the need to branch out and start looking at trolley passengers. After all, someone could drive one of those trolleys into a skyscraper, right?
Mar 4, 2008 | 9:11 pm
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Bolding mine:
And even in this screwed-up era, is a court really going to hold up what is essentially a roving team of law-enforcement accosting individuals in a public place in the city and checking them for ID and outstanding warrants. Papers please? Doesn't it shatter the whole "airports are a special case" argument if this sort of thing is allowed?
And even in this screwed-up era, is a court really going to hold up what is essentially a roving team of law-enforcement accosting individuals in a public place in the city and checking them for ID and outstanding warrants. Papers please? Doesn't it shatter the whole "airports are a special case" argument if this sort of thing is allowed?
Mar 4, 2008 | 9:16 pm
#10
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Don't quote me on this, but if I recall what one of my buddies said, that Border Patrol has authority within 100 miles of the border to check ID's etc. Not 100% sure.
Mar 5, 2008 | 4:39 am
#13
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Mar 5, 2008 | 6:35 am
#14
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Okay, I am good with the San Diego police wanting to have officers on their trolley - it is a city sponsored transportation medium. Local cops patrolling local transport... just like transport anywhere else in any other large city.
But... then... there is this thing called the Posse Comitatus Act. Feds on a local bus or trolley seem to be in clear violation of that...
A little quote from the Wiki:
Thomas Jefferson, where are you when we need you most?!?!?!?!?!
"Snakes on a Plane"? Nah... Feds on a Train!
Okay, I am good with the San Diego police wanting to have officers on their trolley - it is a city sponsored transportation medium. Local cops patrolling local transport... just like transport anywhere else in any other large city.
But... then... there is this thing called the Posse Comitatus Act. Feds on a local bus or trolley seem to be in clear violation of that...
A little quote from the Wiki:
The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (Army, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement police or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (States, their counties and municipal divisions)....
The statute generally prohibits federal military personnel and units of the United States National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. The Coast Guard is exempt from the Posse Comitatus Act.
...but then... I am not surprised... Just one more moment when I utter the words, "I am proud to be an American"... just a little quieter....The statute generally prohibits federal military personnel and units of the United States National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. The Coast Guard is exempt from the Posse Comitatus Act.
Thomas Jefferson, where are you when we need you most?!?!?!?!?!
"Snakes on a Plane"? Nah... Feds on a Train!
Mar 5, 2008 | 7:18 am
#15
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