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Old Sep 24, 2007 | 11:07 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by cooper99
Do they attempt to put their destruction back together or just leave you there with a pile of pieces?
You're responsible for repacking your craft. You really wouldn't want anyone else to do that, would you?

Also...I can't believe they are allowed to tear apart an aircraft since their actions could result in making the plane unsafe...it's not exactly a rickshaw.
They do not interfere with the structural integrity of aircraft, as they're customs officials, not mechanics. All items removed (e.g. interior panelling; carpets; seats) are either cosmetic features or fairly mobile, so it's more of a hassle (and a time-consuming one at that) than anything else. My apologies, though -- I didn't mean to imply that the cabin was gutted, with avionics hanging out and all over the place, or anything like that.
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Old Sep 24, 2007 | 11:33 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by davidcalgary29
They do not interfere with the structural integrity of aircraft, as they're customs officials, not mechanics. All items removed (e.g. interior panelling; carpets; seats) are either cosmetic features or fairly mobile, so it's more of a hassle (and a time-consuming one at that) than anything else. My apologies, though -- I didn't mean to imply that the cabin was gutted, with avionics hanging out and all over the place, or anything like that.
Did CBP do anything that would require some sort of FAA approval/license to do to an aircraft? Would the aircraft be legal to fly as they left it?
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Old Sep 24, 2007 | 12:17 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by ralfp
Did CBP do anything that would require some sort of FAA approval/license to do to an aircraft?
Possible, but rules & regs would have changed since '91, which is the last time that *I* went through this process. I understand from my Dad that this is still the de facto procedure coming from the Bahamas, but another pilot will have to chime in to confirm current CBP practice.

Would the aircraft be legal to fly as they left it?
Difficult to answer; many potential violations would be rectified by the pilot before flight, ie. having enough seats and proper safety equipment for all pax. If a pilot took off immediately after being cleared, with interior still stripped (seats out) and safety eqiupment out, then no, I don't suppose that it would be lawful to fly under those circumstances. It's the pilot's responsibility to maintain their craft, though, and I don't think that any intermediate actions by CBP negate his or her obligations and responsibilities.

It's possible that an agent or officer could damage some of the avionics in their searches, but I never saw this occur.
I *have* seen a number of planes at FLL that were completely gutted, *allegedly* in the process of being searched for drugs, but they had alreadly likely been groomed as exhibits for legal proceedings by the time that I saw them.
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Old Sep 24, 2007 | 2:47 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by ralfp
Did CBP do anything that would require some sort of FAA approval/license to do to an aircraft? Would the aircraft be legal to fly as they left it?
In at least one case I'm aware of, CBP did leave the aircraft in such a shambles that it took an FAA licensed mechanic 3+ days to get the aircraft back into condition where it could be flown without being in violation of FAA rules. That cost the pilot almost $3000, plus hotel room and incidentals. His comment was that they were being horsey with him for some reason.

Like the TSA, there is simply no recourse if CBP does something like this.

YMMV.
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Old Sep 25, 2007 | 2:26 am
  #20  
 
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Into Canada

I'd believe you on the US Customs, but you can't blame them. Most are uncaring trained-monkey bureaucrats.

Did a private charter into YWG a couple months back and had no issues with Canadian customs. Nice, pleasant and helpful.

I do complain everytime I enter the US via commercial airlines--it always seems the foreign nationals have more agents waiting to screen them than US Citizens. This is simply not the case when entering other countries, where typically the foreigners are forced to wait in line and the nationals get to breeze right through. What gives?
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Old Sep 25, 2007 | 3:16 am
  #21  
 
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Thanks David...I suspected it was just paneling and such but the way the FAA/CAA is it wouldn't be hard for an untrained person to tear apart something requiring an A&P...and I am not just talking due to regs...I am talking damaging something that could cause problems...cable connector...bushing....avionics or other electrics buses....man the possibilities are vast.

And as in GLobal's post...that is when it is absolutely insane that they can destroy your stuff...and require you to pay to fix it...name any other service that can do that other than "security/customs" type services.

I'd have gone to court over that one.....
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Old Sep 25, 2007 | 5:08 am
  #22  
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They normally give you a civil claim form for any damage. I don't know if it covers re-assembly, though.
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Old Sep 25, 2007 | 8:03 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by CLEburger
I do complain everytime I enter the US via commercial airlines--it always seems the foreign nationals have more agents waiting to screen them than US Citizens. This is simply not the case when entering other countries, where typically the foreigners are forced to wait in line and the nationals get to breeze right through. What gives?
I haven't noticed this to be the case. Regardless of the number of screeners available for those who do not hold US passports or green cards, those lines always move a lot slower.

- Michael
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Old Sep 25, 2007 | 10:57 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer
Like the TSA, there is simply no recourse if CBP does something like this.
Oh of course there is - if you're rich.

You simply need to decide you're willing to spend the money necessary to make the CBP agent's life a living hell.
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Old Sep 26, 2007 | 5:49 am
  #25  
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Originally Posted by JakiChan
Oh of course there is - if you're rich.

You simply need to decide you're willing to spend the money necessary to make the CBP agent's life a living hell.
But, even then you could get on the bad list for the next agent.
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Old Sep 26, 2007 | 7:01 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Michael
I haven't noticed this to be the case. Regardless of the number of screeners available for those who do not hold US passports or green cards, those lines always move a lot slower.

- Michael
Fingerprinting and retna scans do take a bit longer.
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Old Sep 26, 2007 | 9:43 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by tazi
Fingerprinting and retna scans do take a bit longer.
Even before such procedures were in place, the lines for foreigners moved much slower. I think it has more to do with the overall level of scrutiny applied to foreigners than to nationals.

The same is true elsewhere. When we enter the EU, my wife breezes through and I'm stuck in the slow line.

- Michael
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Old Sep 27, 2007 | 12:40 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by AAaLot
But, even then you could get on the bad list for the next agent.
The two wouldn't need to be related.

I mean if someone really pisses you off then you can, quite legally, hire a private detective to tail this person, Cheaters style, and see what skeletons are in his/her closet. You might get lucky. You just have to be angry enough and rich enough.
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Old Sep 27, 2007 | 7:50 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by CLEburger
I do complain everytime I enter the US via commercial airlines--it always seems the foreign nationals have more agents waiting to screen them than US Citizens.
Where where where where?? Because you can't possibly be talking about BOS, EWR, ORD, SFO, LAX, DFW, IAH, IAD, MIA, ATL, PHL, CLT, BWI, HNL, PHX, YYZ or YUL.
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Old Sep 28, 2007 | 3:48 am
  #30  
 
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Various Airports...

Originally Posted by Bob'sYourUncle
Where where where where?? Because you can't possibly be talking about BOS, EWR, ORD, SFO, LAX, DFW, IAH, IAD, MIA, ATL, PHL, CLT, BWI, HNL, PHX, YYZ or YUL.
All I know is I've waited in long lines at JFK, CLT, and CLE multiple times returning from London. There was 8-10 foreign national officers working and 4-5 US citizens. Now when you go to LHR the other way, there are usually loads of agents screening UK nationals and long lines for foreigners. Why don't we treat our own this way?

It's not this way all the time, of course, I just think the US immigration officials are not very flexible in their scheduling and planning.
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