auh2o

Is there an actual FAR that says you have to remain in your ticketed cabin? United claims that it is an actual FAA regulation. I am under the impression that it a United policy, not a FAR.

I am wrong?

planemechanic

What difference does it make? You agree to abide the the air carriers terms of carriage when you buy your ticket. Are you gonna ignore the air carriers rules just because they are not backed by law?

auh2o

No. I am not that stupid. I just want to know if they are telling the truth.

bocastephen

No, they are not telling the truth. There is no federal air regulation which stipulates which cabin you must remain in or which lavatory you can use - for security purposes or any other reason. They simply don't care.

There is no TSA regulation to this effect either.

So - when FAs make these announcements and state there is a federal air regulation governing this, you have two directions:

1) listen to them anyway, because you have to do what they say, even if they tell you to stand on your head and blow bubbles. There IS a federal air regulation that governs this.

2) report the FAs to the airline (you can warn them of your intention on the way OFF the plane) and file a formal DOT complaint (copying the airline) which states that the air carrier is fabricating non-existent federal regulations to govern passenger conduct...this might end up shutting them up with these stupid announcements, which would be a good thing.

or 3) stop flying AA until their crews stop behaving like a bunch of chicken littles.

exerda

Well, you're supposed to obey the FAs in terms of such things, and they tell you to stay in your ticketed cabin, so, though a stretch, that could be construed as the legal backing for the rule.

IME, United usually says, "Due to United security policy," and not TSA or FAA rules, but I've heard them blame it on the TSA, etc. before as well.

law dawg

AA stopped doing this earlier this month, I believe.

Beckles

I've heard different airlines state it different ways, and even different ways on the same airline ... there's no rhyme or reason. I was surprised on a recent NW flight where they specifically allowed the use of the forward lav by coach passengers, only warning against congregating and that you would have to wait in coach.I was going to say the same thing, if the FA's and/or flight crew tell you to use the lav in your ticketed cabin, you would be violating FAA regulations if you disobeyed.

FWAAA

There is a TSA Security Directive from December, 2003 that requires that airlines tell passengers on inbound international flights that passengers must stay in their ticketed cabin.

AA extended this TSA rule to all flights, but recently rescinded it.

alliance

Does it require that passengers actually stay in those cabins, or does it just require the announcement?

flygirl94

UAL extended it to all their flights as well.

ralfp

So what's that FAR?

How far does this FAR go? It must have limits. If a FA tells you to stay seated for a 14 hour flight because he/she does not like the way you look, are you breaking the law if you get up to use the lav?

kokonutz

I know that 121.571 talks about complying with lighted signs, placards and crewmember instructions, but that announcement ONLY applies to where and when one can smoke on a plane...

bocastephen

You do have an escalation path. If an individual FA tells you to do something which you feel is out of line, you can escalate to the lead FA. If the lead FA is still enforcing something which is out of line, then you can escalate to the Captain.

Beyond that, you need to wait until you get off the aircraft; then you can escalate to management.

ralfp

And if the FA tells you to sit down and be quiet? It would not be too hard for an FA to translate "raising a stink" to "interfering with flight crew", even if you're raising a stink about something legit. How would one talk to the captain w/o going through the FA?

Besides, waiting doesn't help too much if the FA is ordering you to hold it in for 14 hours, sit next to a corpse, etc.

bocastephen

If the FA refused to escalate to the Captain, then I would inform the FA that everything he/she is doing will be reported to headquarters upon arrival and it will be escalated to the VP of Inflight (and you would need to follow through on that).

If the FA refused to let me use the lav, absent other orders from the flight deck and I needed to go, I would use it anyway. They can write me up, but once we arrive and discuss the situation with the Captain and authorities on the ground, the FA will come across looking like a moron.

I recall reading a few other threads here over the years where an FA did something out of line or called the authorities on a customer without appropriate cause, and it was the FA who got in trouble, not the customer.