ralfp

So, in the end, you can force people to remove their shoes. The punishment for failure to do so is not flying and the potential of detention by LEOs. The article (from the OP) is wrong.

Bart

No one forces you to do anything. You have to weigh your determination to keep your shoes on against your determination to make your flight. If you choose to not cooperate with security, then you don't get to make your flight. But instead of being hauled off to jail, you're merely escorted off the checkpoint. Keep in mind, though, that I'm speaking strictly from a security perspective. From a law enforcement perspective, in some jurisdictions, refusal to cooperate with airport security officers in resolving an alarm may be enough to trigger a law enforcement search and/or detention for questioning.

doober

Are you certain it's been successful? Somehow, I don't quite get that it has been.

txrus

You know, Bart, there was a time I truly expected better from you, but clearly that time has passed.

omascreener

While I agree that walking without shoes at a checkpoint is nasty what about all the things you touch in your everyday life? Not everyone washes their hands regularly. http://www.hygenius.com/importance.htm. How about the recirculated air that you breath in buildings and on passenger aircraft?http://www.webmd.com/content/article/49/39915 How about that new immigrant that you work with everyday that could have TB? http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew..._name=&no_ads= My point is that germs are everywhere not just on the floor at the airport checkpoint.

Bart

Pardon me while I step aside and have an emotional moment.

Cookie Jarvis

Much more disgusting than the airport security check point is the restroom door. There are far too many people who go to the restroom, do their business, DO NOT wash their hands, leaving whatever "residue" on the door handle. Yuck!!!!

Also, have you ever noticed how many people DO NOT cover their mouth when they cough or sneeze?

ralfp

If that's not being forced to remove one's shoes, what is (besides the actual phyical act of someone grabbing them and pulling them off you against your will)?

This is like saying that nobody forces me to obey the law; I just get fined or sent to jail if I disobey the law.

jello2594

I think Bart finally drank the Kool-Aid

gre

As I'm the guy from post 16 (thanks for the explanation), let's get down to specifics:

Here's the shoe I have worn for every flight for the last 3 years:

http://www.onlineshoes.com/productpa...en=w&pcid=2579

It does not set off the WTMD. I ask for a swipe instead of removing them. Am I entitled to a swipe? Can I be forced in secondary to take them off even though they do not set off the WTMD (under the threat of "do you want to fly today?")?

daw617

Oh, you're supposed to be given just the shoe swab, not the full secondary treatment -- but as we know, all too TSA officers love to make up all sorts of nonsense rules on the spot and abuse their authority, so there is no guarantee that TSA officers will actually handle things the way they are supposed to. There are plenty of TSA folks out there who seem to enjoy giving retaliatory secondaries for all sorts of reasons, including to people like you who decline to take their shoes off. That said, my experience has been that usually the TSA has given me just the swab, not the full secondary.

daw617

Hey, I like it. Give that screener a raise!

MSY-MSP

Bart,

Just a question or 4 for you, and a story for the rest of us here.

Yesterday going through security at ORD, which generally is a bastion of some sanity, not total sanity, but some. Approached the checkpoint and was informed that I had to remove my shoes. Fine I was running a little late and had just found out my UA flight was cancelled, so a rebook was in order. Anyway, I removed my shoes and prepared to put on a set of plastic baggies much like what you store vegatbles in. The screener then informed me that all footwear must be removed. This included socks. When I asked him why his response is that we are looking for more than metal, and that the socks must come off. I informed him that I would not remove my socks as I was worried about the cleaniness of the floor. Of course he used the would you like to fly today line. I said I would take the secondary then. To which he responded that was not an option. Further, He physically blocked the WTMD until I had removed my socks. This was also going on at the two other WTMD at the checkpoint. I eventually was "forced" to remove my socks as there was no option to go back as my bags had already cleared through the machine. The supervisor when called over backed up the screener, saying that the screener can require that all footwear come off and that socks constitute footwear. He gave me a complaint form which I filled out and then watched him dump it in a trashcan away from the checkpoint.

Now for the questions. Can a screener actually require that you remove your socks? Do they actually constitute footwear? Can a screener refuse to allow you to pass if you agree to the secondary? And finally, could I have walked away from the checkpoint at that time? (i.e. What happens if your bags have cleared, but you haven't/cannot clear the WTMD because of a screener)

n5667

Yeah, and after they sneeze on their hand, be careful what they touch!

...Ever since I saw that fellow pick up and wipe off the boarding pass he dropped in the urinal I've been quite religious about wearing gloves...

n5667

Don't usually request those shoes to be removed at our airport - if you don't want to take your shoes off all that is supposed to happen is a swipe.

However, we are supposed to do continuous random screening, so at some airports they may just combine the two...