I keep filing them in the hopes that somehow change will be effected.

There aren't many other legal avenues open.

Did I say "complain now" or did I say "Remember: file a complaint each and every time you are selected for unnecessary secondary harassment."?

Since it's the latter, the complaints will follow the additional harassment, not the other way 'round.

I know this is going to be REALLLLLY radical for you and wayyyyyyyy beyond how you think. But how about this for a plan

1) Keep an open mind
2) Let the program start
3) experience what they are ACTUALLY doing not what you anticipate
4) Analyze the program through a filter other than "I hate everything they do"
5) Decide the appropriate way to react and react

I know this is going to be a new concept for you but we can all help you do it *smile*

To quote you exactly this is just what you said

"Woof! Woof!" Wrong tree.

This is a battle worth picking, for this is just an excuse to provide cover to instituting racist profiling at moments seen as "necessary" by the "security at any cost" types. And Kip Hawley knows it well.

You can imagine fits everywhere if you wish, but that will not make such a characterization necessarily accurate. Case in point. Some of us are deliberate, calm and calculating opponents of foolish, wasteful, and reactionary "security" provisions that go against the grain of civilization and the best of America.

Unless Comrade Kip was lying, (yeah I know, Comrade Kip is always right) any additional screening that is not a puffer machine/simple ETD swab beyond the WTMD and carry-on x-ray is unacceptable.

That is kind of my point. Some of you may have very thought out reasonings and platforms but you dont come across that way!!!! When every single issue is met with over the top "sue em", "I wont do it no matter what", "they are wrong no matter what they say or do", it comes across as fanatic babbling.

And I do not mean that as a personal attack on anyone. but I started out coming to this forum because I too have real security concerns and truth, found most (or at least perceived most) as so radical and ridiculous that little that was said could be taken seriously!!!! And serious conversations break down into rhetoric and ravings!!!!!

It would be nice to see more serious conversation and reasonings and less mantras, hate and behavior that we know if most of you actually carried out what you claim on here you wouldnt ever be allowed to fly anywhere.

And NO I dont think everything kip does is right, or anyone in security. But I choose to make an issue by issue analysis and decision and articulate why I think it is right or wrong not just chant and shoot from the hip!

A strategy for ANYONE to start consoldiating power and get their way with "colleagues"/circle/"supporters":



Bad idea! Not every "trial and error" "experiment" needs to be pursued.

Funny the other day it seems on another thread you were saying the analysis of people would be better than the stupidity today with shoes and bag screening.

Do I think MSP will do it right, heck no, as I said earlier, if they use in house people they are going to get stuck on "what's my name" (not even asking people their own names).

But personally I think behavior analysis as a concept far out ways what we have now!

If you dont pursue them once in a while you dont find out if anything has changed/is changing!!! It is dangerous to keep your views locked in the past.

Ok this is stimulating and I am sure I'll be back but no one is going to the grocery store for me, so I'm off.

Have fun filling out those complaint forms (but at MSP not sure TSA folks can read them)

One's own perception is not always correct. Have you given thought to that as of late?

Weird, I don't remember that.

Anyway, in my opinion, no one should ever be questioned about their travel unless there is probable cause to do so. It is none of the government's business who travels, when, why, how, or where.

Therefore, the only things that should be part of the standard screening process should be:

WTMD
X-ray hand luggage
Puffer/ETD Swab

Any additional screening should be predicated ONLY on an alarm of one of the above three. There should never be any random harassment, nor should people be questioned without clear, probable cause to do so.

It's more dangerous to believe that everything must be pursued "once in a while" or "you don't find out if anything has changed/is changing".

They say shooting yourself in the head with a loaded shotgun is a bad idea. Are you interested to pursue that "experiment" once in a while to find out if anything has changed/is changing? I would hope not.

It's likely that the TSA folks at MSP are more literate than the average person in America. Not only does MN have a better standard of education state-wide, it also has a better labor pool than most of the country.

That's not exactly true. In a functioning liberal democratic republic, if there are enough complaints from enough victims/subjects through enough channels over enough time, then change occurs.

Ain't gonna happen, my friend