Not true. I have specifically been told by a TSA representative that I would not fly that day. Fortunately, the Chicago Police Department did not share that opinion.

I can also tell you that in most midsize and large cities, the sworn LEOs at the airports generally consider the TSA to be, in large part, irrelevent. I'd rather deal with a LEO than a TSA screener, lead, or supervisor any day of the week. The LEO generally has some degree of judgement and an SOP that they actually stick to the letter of.

Don't kid yourself--the real LEOs are laughing. At you. Not with you.

Yep, Flyertalk is desperately in need of more single-issue posters, like those who come here to "clear up misconceptions."

The airline fora (where we discuss points and miles) simply couldn't survive without airline employees setting us stupid frequent flyers straight.

Same thing for discussing the Airport Kabuki Theatre which now costs over $5 billion annually. Without single-issue posters to "clear up misconceptions," we'd forever be in the dark.

That said, welcome to Flyertalk, TSAman.

Several of your points are not factual, including points 1, 2 and 6. In those posts, you actually contradict recent posts by long-time single-issue TSA posters and the TSA itself. You may want to review the facts.

I've had to delete the last several posts as being off-topic and argumentative. Let's give the OP more than a few hours on FT and this Forum to either be of assistance or to prove himself/herself to be fraudulent.
Thanks...

________________________

Cholula
Travel Safety/Security Forum Moderator

TSAman why oh why is it that everytime i go thru the tsa checkin line, boarding pass and i.d. is checked? yes i mean everytime.like today at hnl and ito.

[QUOTE=Cholula]I've had to delete the last several posts as being off-topic and argumentative.QUOTE]

I'm only ON this site for the posts that are off-topic and argumentative.

False. You claim I have consented, but that doesn't mean I have.

So what?

OK... using recent history as a guide, 0 terrorists per pistol times 3 pistols per airport times 481 airports = zero terrorists found! How about that!

What is a "local DHS representative"? An alternative legislature?

I did write my Congressional representatives, and they don't care. Two didn't reply, and the one who did reply spouted off a bunch of nonsense about "evildoers" -- straight out of the Bush playbook.

How should I put this nicely -- I do not recognize the legitimacy of the TSA and look forward to the day when the TSA is disbanded.

I was originally going to start a new thread with this, but I figure this string is just as good as any. Especially given the OP.

I flew out of EUG today. This is an airport that has about five gates in total. Two WTMDs, usually only one that is staffed.

I have posted on my experiences there before, but I had more time to look around and shake my head at things.

First, arriving at the BP/ID podium. Unfortuantely, I interrupted her conversation with someone else. She puts my Passport about 10 inches from her face. Looks at the BP, runs a yellow highighter over my name on the upper left, then again on the lower right.

Walk through the empty maze of the line (the guy ahead of me was already walking through the WTMD), end up at the black gate that says "Wait here" (if I walked straight, it would have been 10 feet, max). A TSAer greets me, asks for my BP. She reviews it, writes her initials in two places on the BP, asks me if I had ever gone through security before (despite my BP stating in two places my elite status with UA). I said yes, then she confiscates my BP. I ask what she's doing with it, she hands it to the TSAer on the other side of the WTMD. Then I replied, "well, I've never had my BP confiscated before without just cause." That earned me a look that I swear had retaliatory secondary written all over it, but none was administered.

Had to take my shoes off, which wasn't needed the last time I went through six months ago.

I beep the WTMD. It's my belt, which hasn't beeped in about six months, so obviously this WTMD is set stronger.

So, now I have plenty to do (re-pack laptop, tie my shoes, thread my belt), and I looked around (if you want to look at how things go and survey the area, this is an excellent way to sandbag and observe...just look busy). I noticed that EUG has a "TSA Screener of the Month" plaque, complete with name engravings and a picture of the staffer. The supervisor's podium was at the end of this CP, complete with an engraved nameplate on front of the podium (I think the name was Nick LePunte if any of you TSAers want to check), similar to what you see at the hotels with their name on there. Of course, the supervisor was not there, and not an LEO to be found.

As I went up the escalator, I enjoyed watching the TSAer manning the exit (right across the divider from the WTMDs) to be filing her nails.

Having gone through dozens and dozens and dozens of TSA checkpoints, nothing singularly stood out, it's the entire experience at EUG that made me laugh and shake my head. Really made me think of Barney Fife.

For what it's worth.

Yeah, I'm hearing you dude.
What can I say....

Let me just say that your starting off on the wrong foot here. Even though I'm sure it's not your intention, you're coming off as a bit condescending. We are not in need of "education". If you'd been around for more than a day, you should know that all of these issues have been thoroughly hashed out, add infinitum. But let me offer some specifics.

Yes, been discussed. Read the "Return of TSA Gate Screening?" thread.

Really?? Go through the check point at DEN, and then tell me removing shoes is optional. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Once again, this subject has been done to DEATH here. One of the biggest complaints about the TSA here is the inconsistency. You making a statement that is demonstrably FALSE in MANY airports, just serves to underscore the apparent randomness of the TSA's procedures.

You may think that's what it means, and the law may say that, but ask most people if they think they're FORFEITING their constitutional rights when they walk into an airport, and I'll bet you get a different answer.

I'll bet we could find some GSC's that might take issue with that statement. But that's just a guess on my part.

Why do the TSA locks get cut off if they're such a big help? And why have I herd MANY times at check in that NO LOCKS are allowed on bags? Period?

"Sensitive Security Information". Capitalized no less. Wow. Sounds like you're trying to impress us.

Didn't work.

We complain because it's useless to search non Arabic old people and children, and you know it. Let's take a quiz. How many terrorist attacks have been committed by old people and children. Let me think. Oh. NONE. Big surprise. We should be looking for TERRORISTS, not weapons. I won't go into a rant on the stupidity of thinking that someone can hijack an airplane with a knife, you can read my post on the "Amazing TSA at DEN - not a joke" thread.


I'm not impressed. I've got news for you. Possession of a weapon does not mean your a terrorist. I know that's hard for some of the more throughly indoctrinated to get your mind around. I carried a weapon nearly everywhere I went in Oregon. I had a permit to. Does that mean I intended to kill and terrorize?

Just because you found a weapon does NOT mean that a threat was averted. I really don't expect a TSA employee to get that, but it's a fact.

How many terrorists were found? Can't answer? Or is that "Sensitive Security Information" (Capitalized) also?

Demonstrably NOT always the case. Try again.

Ah yes. The old "I don't make the rules..." line. That line has been use by every stooge of every bureaucracy that ever enforce idiotic and downright evil laws throughout history. Doesn't the TSA manual give you better lines than that when dealing with the subjects? Well, whatever helps you sleep a night...

You're welcome.

Hang around and read a bit more before you try to "educate" us ignorant Frequent Flyers any further.

Welcome to FlyerTalk!

While we certainly appreciate your good intentions, it's important ot keep in mind that many stations handle situations differently. So differently, that a frequent traveller may believe the SOP varies by station.

We have seen TSA employees come on the board and suggest that something is supposed to be handled one way, and insist that it must be consistently applied, just to find out it can be radically different across stations. Of course many screeners don't travel as much as very frequent flyers, so they don't see this day-in and day-out.

I think you'll find the inconsistency is the source of much of the frustration.

Examples of such inconsistency:

- All shoes must be removed at so-called "shoe carnival" airports.
- Regardless of alarm or swab results, shoes must be removed during secondary screening at EWR.
- In addition to laptops, umbrellas are to be removed from bags at DCA. They even announce this.

So when frequent flyers see the same so-called Standard Operating Procedure implemented differently at various stations, it's undermines the credibility of the TSA organization.

You may want to inform the TSA at EWR, concourse B-3, about this.

On recent adventures through EWR/B, after the initial ID / BP check by the contract employee, the next person you see, a TSA employee asks for both ID and BP. I questioned this (and do each time it happens), and the TSA employee tells me "She works for the airlines and we don't trust her" or a variation, but yes, TSA employees conduct the ID checks; after that, two additional BP checks.

Total: 2 ID checks, #1 contractor # 2 by TSA
Total: 4 Boarding pass checks, #1 contractor, #2-4 by TSA, all within line of sight.

At EWR concourse C, I am sometimes asked for my ID again (with boarding pass) by the TSA when I go through as a selectee.

The screeners at EWR are gems... All of us frequent travelers love them

I could continue on about SOP violations at EWR, if you wish.

I could tell you about an EWR screener who tries to pass off as a Supervisor when it comes to complaint forms.

I could tell you about having to remove flip flops & sandal's (clearly under 1 in) at EWR (plus some Hawaiian airports) or getting secondary. To be fair, I usually wear shoes through which are non-profile; on rare occassion EWR gets it correct (Other airports like ORD, or even JFK, just miles away from EWR, get it correct 100% of the time).

I could tell you about TSA screeners blocking the enterance to the WTMD at EWR if shoes are not off.

I could tell you about the four and five letter words commonly used at EWR, typically concourse C, sometimes B-3.

I can tell you, and I'm sure Brookstone can likewise, how many times EWR and other airports cut off TSA approved locks. (Brookstone replaces them for me, free of charge as they are guaranteed)

BTW: Are you familiar with Schapelle Corby?

Are you also aware of the fact drugs smugglers will sometimes use an unlocked suitcase of an innocent individual to transport drugs? I am more concerned with someone introducing something to my luggage when traveling overseas than items being stolen (it's clothing, it's insured) - but thanks to the TSA, luggage checked in the United States, even if it is transiting another country such as Thailand, Singapore, or Malaysia, for a connection cannot be locked, or is left to the chance a TSA employee will not cut the lock off?

There is a lot I can tell you about EWR TSA, and it sure the heck is not professional nor does it follow SOP... unless SOP allows for the above and favours foul language. EWR (Newark "Liberty" International) is one of the worst, but I can tell you about many others... I'm sure other folks here could share too.

SDF_Traveler

Allow me to re-phrase my post (which was the only one deleted as off-topic, btw):

TSAman,

I disagree with several of your points. This causes me to cast doubt on several aspects of your original post.

signed,

Elvis Presley

LessO2,

Your post summed everything up. That's the exact TSA behavior that makes me so angry. These are small people on very big power trips. There is no plausible benefit to keeping the skies safe. Instead, there is a time-consuming, undignified, and cumbersome drama.

Above all, there is no way to improve the situation. The TSA does not respond to passengers; "supervisors" may not be supervisors at all, so nobody takes an interest in resolving the problem. Consequently, our collective blood pressure skyrockets.

As many of the TSA employees here (eyecue, Bart) have noticed, there are shocking inconsistencies among airports. And these aren't to "keep the bad guys on their toes," as the TSA used to claim.

In most cases it's not the screener's fault at all. He or she has instructions that change every five minutes. But rude behavior, such as retaliatory secondary, or unprofessional behavior, such as swearing or nail filing, is inexcusable.

The TSA can be a kangaroo court in which one is guilty until proven innocent. One is at the mercy of condescending, nail filing, and profane-mouthed screeners. It's certainly not at every station, but it's far too common. One trip to Newark will explain everything.

Questions like, "Have you ever been through security before?" make my blood boil. Many passengers have studied or have professional backgrounds in risk management, aviation law, air piracy, and so on. In other cases, we've travelled enough to know what security can and cannot do.

There was an announcement last month about reducing the number of unwarranted secondaries, so there is hope that things could change... but I'm not holding my breath.

Not sure what that would do.

"Well boss, I know he killed all those people but at least we have a positive ID on who he was"

To be frank, whilst I agree with a lot of this, your tone is essentially the same as the TSA people you rail against. I don't believe for a minute that how you address someone on FT will change the way the TSA deal with us when we fly, but it costs nothing to tone down the response and considerably improves the quality of the discussion.


Definitely. I know two people "caught" at airports with firearms in their bags. One had intended to bring it to the airport to check in and take it with them but forgot in their haste and the other just plain forgot that they still had their handgun in their bag. Both weapons were legal and in both cases, after an embarassing situation and a stern telling off (and possibly a small fine, I can't quite remember), they were back on their way. No harm, no foul, no terrorism.

Weapons confiscated (or at least a good try at confiscation) by the TSA include the Congressional Medal of Honor being carried by an old soldier on the way to a reunion as well as numerous items of dubious use to a hijacker (even if people were likely to be cowed by a knife these days) but of serious sentimental value to the owner (my mother had some items taken off her that she'd been given as a young girl by her mother for example).

I don't blame individual TSA agents (I take this as any airport based TSA staff from line staff to managers) for the rules but I do blame them for either the inconsistency of the application of those rules, their lousy attitudes or the lousy attitudes of their coworkers and employees.

Welcome, TSAMan. I have a few follow-up questions.

7: Again, I've posted this question many times, but never got a clear-cut answer. How are Canadian and British airports able to screen all baggage behind-the-scenes, paging passengers in the event baggage needs to be opened?

8: Why are ETDs still being used as a primary protocol instead of CTX at some airports? It's more labor intensive. DTW and ORD come into mind. Obviously, this isn't cost-efficient in the long run.

- Pat