To the best of my knowledge, non revs do not pre-board.

You may truly believe this, but it isn't true. Do a search and you will find lots of contrary evidence. As sbrower said, your management has chosen to purposefully deceive you (that's called "lying" in ordinary English) to serve a political agenda.

I can virtually guarantee you that the two (at least) airline CEOs who testified before congressional committees about the circumstances under which they are required to carry air marshals for free in premium seats were not lying to the Congress (which is a Federal offense, incidentally).

Final point: Tax deductions have no value when you have no income!!!

Bruce

The latest info I obtained was directly from an individual from Continental. I will not stand, ok, make that sit, here and say that this subject has not been thrown out to the wolves so to speak without an answer from management. Our agency has put out on more than one occasion various methods, polices and in fact items that have been promised and yet never happened.

Did someone intend to lie???? Probably not. At least I hope not. Does it come across as a lie? Yep, sure does. Imagine being the employee and how it affects our thoughts... It is a good job and we keep plugging along as best we can with what we have to work with.

I have posed the question to management more than a few times and I have gotten more than a few answers. That is why i approached an actual Airlines to see there thoughts.

I can only post what i am told. Truth or other wise...

Like you, I'd like to see the answer in writing from the ones that know the actual answer. Not their thoughts and opinions...

Congressional testimony from American's and Delta's CEOs is a matter of public record. The Continental employee with whom you spoke was obviously misinformed. That's not the same as lying. Your management, however, knows better and really is lying.

Bruce

You may be 100% correct in how the seats are or are not covered for that matter.

I was told by the CO employee that they had a policy change that now allowed them to do the write off. If this is correct, the system has changes to allow them to do so. In the beginning, we rode for free from what I understood. I am being told that is not longer true. Is it????? Who really knows. As I mentioned, I'd like to see the formal system for this to put this to bed as I get yelled at almost daily by gate agents. Now there is a good time....

I also agree that if you have no money then there is no need to write things off. Simply because the airlines are not making money should not affect how we, the people, the agency the whatever, pay for seats.

That would be like McDonald's having a minimum sale simply because they are not making money. If your making money. Good for you. if not, make the needed changes to do so. I am not saying it is easy. If it was, we would all own airlines. I am simply saying times have changed. You either change with them or you fail if the change created a loss for you.

I disagree. If a business is losing money already, the government should not steal their product and tell them they can 'just write it off'. That doesn't do anything for the airlines to compensate them for the theft.

Even if the airlines were making money, the government should not be permitted to steal their product. If the government wants to meddle in the airline security business, it should be required to pay cash for those seats it appropriates. And I definitely do not want my tax dollars spent on premium class seats for any travelers.

OK, but forcing the airlines to carry thousands of air marshals around the world for free, usually in premium seats, is sort of like kicking a guy when he's down. The airlines have enough trouble already without the air-marshal program making matters worse.

Just for the record, I work with Federal income taxes for a living. I have a copy of the complete Internal Revenue Code on my desk and have actually read quite a lot of it! The law provides no special rule allowing airlines to write off the cost of air-marshal seats. Of course, they can deduct their expenses for flying planes, but they get no "special" write-off for carrying air marshals.

Bruce

Like I said, If I KNEW the answer I'd post it and say that it was fact.

Thus far, I can only go with what I am told.

Good points on the fairness of how the seats are covered. I think you have valid concerns/points.

I wish it were simple. It simply is not.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here at the site. Simply posting my views as they are being presented to me.

I honestly feel I am not being one sided simply as I am employed by the FED Gov.

I will continue to do some digging on this and hopefully will get an "Official" concrete answer.

We may not like the answer. I just would like to get a truthful one.

When I consulted at one of the airlines, they cross charged the department I worked for full fare. The idea was that they could have sold the seat.

Am I right in assuming they could only write of the actual expense of providing that seat not what they could have sold it for? Also losses can be carried forward against income in the future.

Without limit?

Regarding firearms aboard airliners, I hope that FAMs use frangible rounds. Those do not have a conventional projectile, but rather are designed to avoid penetration of adjacent structures. The fuselage of an airliner is more fragile than sheetrock or plaster, but frangible rounds should not lead to catastrophic failure of the fuselage.

You're right. An intracompany charge like the one that you describe would result in income to one department but would be exactly offset by a cost to the other department. Thus, no net income or loss on the company's tax return, which is normally filed at the corporate level.

Corporations generally can carry forward losses for 20 years (and back for 2 years, which you do first). Special rules apply to certain industries, but not airlines.

Bruce

The notion that one or two bullet-holes in an aircraft fuselage would result in catastrophic failure is generally regarded as a myth. Planes are tougher than that. Sure, air would leak out, but not so explosively as to blow a big hole in the side of the plane.

Long ago, I was on a Garuda (Indonesian airline) 747 with a leaky door. It hissed extremely loudly throughout my flight, which lasted a couple of hours. Some passengers were very concerned, but apparently it had been hissing like that for a while, and the crew was not overly concerned. One flight attendant tried stuffing a wet towel in the leak just to quiet the hissing, but it didn't work very well.

Bruce

I can tell you for a fact that more than a few holes in a planes fuselage are not an issue.

Seriously, the bigger issue is in the event a critical item was hit. A hydraulic pump or a line for example.

All these things are taken into consideration during training and evaluations of the actions of the training. (Holes in planes and what not).

Holes the size of standard bullets do nothing more than allow slow pressurization. The masks drop down at a certain point depending on altitude. You put the mask on and your good to go.

About the seat issue I'd love to share my $.02. First off this seat issue is nothing new. When I travelled for the first time to the US I was informed that my seat could be given away to "federal authorities". That right has always existed ever since now their claiming it. They are claiming it by popular demand. The price element is just as fair or unfair as it goes for TSA checkers, costs of labour, etc. When you fly there are a lot of costs FAMs are one of them.

If they take your seat it sucks, but ppl like Coast are doing there job. If you don't like it complain to the people that change the policy. Not meant to be blunt, but a realistic approach of the reality. They should now. Personally I think the sensible approach to security would have more impact and I'd say Coast's skills could be used in other, in my opinion more effective ways.

FYI: There are airlines in the industry that always block FAM's seats on flights until the last couple of hours. Some airlines don't even offer upfront seat reservations for this reason (if you know you're bumped you might (as a terrorist) select a different flight). I can't comment on the airlines, because some information has been given in good faith.