GUWonder

Thanks for the article about "history"; it's too bad that a largely good tale had a few mischaracterizations and factual errors in it. Then again, the point of the author's story apparently was less about being purely factual than to score a few points, inclusive of opinionated messages therein.

That said, I never underestimate the ability of an author to make a hero in hindsight, by spinning a tale mixed with facts and mischaracterizations (and even a few errors). Then again, while hero-building, why let a few errors in fact stop the story.

Diplomatic-related protocol, like many other things, can be an issue -- even with security. A validation that protocols are to be extended (and which ones at that) is not an impossible task to determine.

rbrenton88

Last week, returning from Greece, I didn't want to ditch yet another lighter, so I dropped it in my jeans pocket to see what would happen. Went through the detector without a beep, but then was selected for a search by a bored Delta wand guy. He went through every inch of my laptop bag (every one of the 50 nooks and pockets), then my body search. He asked me to empty my pockets when I thought 'damn, there goes the lighter'. Once he was done, he said "Thank you sir, you may put your lighter back in your pocket now" and away I went to the gate.

Superguy

NRT does this as well. You have to go thru some security checkpoint before you get up to the terminals.

They opened up the bottom of the bus and searched it (seems relatively reasonable), but they have someone checking for ID (typically a passport) on the bus while that's going on.

They don't check the bags you have with you though. Never looked twice at my laptop and backpack.

That really was Kabuki security.

GadgetFreak

They have been doing this since NRT opened in the 80s. If anything they have less perimeter security at Narita now than the first time I was there in about 1990. It was my perception and recollection that the security there (the outside stuff) is not primarily designed so much for keeping terrorists off planes, that is what the inside security is for and it seems VERY good to me. The perimeter control was started due to very aggressive protests by local farmers who were against building the airport and at least in its early days frequently tried to get into the airport and disrupt operations as a protest to the construction.

Superguy

Ok, that makes sense.

Just as long as the Japanese don't give into hysteria.

It just seemed weird considering their inside security seemed so sane.

copwriter

You don't need to be surprised at all. Military pilots get a lot more training, screening, etc. than do cops. Both have lethal weapons, but the cop's ride usually costs less than $50 million or so.

SDF_Traveler

Is the tank in respect to LHR? I recall hearing that a tank or two were positioned near LHR a couple of years ago, but I never saw it -- I primarily use LGW with a few trips to LHR-T4.

At JFK T-4E, were you using the new NWA BP's (where they are all printed on one sheet), or the old one? I've been through there a few times with OLCI BP's and no one batted an eye - in fact, I think it's one of the better checkpoints as long as you don't go when it's very slow.

For the evening KLM departure, that checkpoint is one of the most efficient I've ever seen, no shoe carnival, no nonsense, no BS. However, the security folks (non-TSA) inside the terminal are over-protective at other times during the day. I once came in on a NWA domestic flight, was connecting to the KLM flight to AMS later that evening. Instead of exiting the terminal with the other pax, I went the other direction to have a look at the airside duty free, etc. The (non-TSA) security officers inside the terminal would approach me, ask what I was doing in the terminal, one outright rude -- once I showed them my nwa.com OLCI BP for the KL flight, they were not only happy, but they became very helpful, especially the one who was initially rude.

Amazing how a security officer can go from outright rude to apologetic, and then extremely friendly & helpful.

SDF_Traveler

Scandalous

.....

exerda

There are many airports like this around the world ... Marsh Marbour International (MHH) in the Bahamas has been talking about getting a new terminal for years, but as of the last time I was there--last January--it was still just a small (if colorful) building. It is split into two halves, one for departures and the other for arrivals.

At departures, there is a small hot-dog stand snack bar and the counters of the various airlines. You get your BP and then carry your bags outside (at least they do now weigh the bags, although they don't really care that much about overweight bags). You used to carry them right to the plane and set them on the luggage cart. Now you take them out to the cart and "security" looks at the bag, maybe even asks you to open it. That's about it. No WTMD, no x-raying of luggage, etc. I guess they figure that a hijacked DH-8 isn't much of a threat to anything, and if you're connecting in NAS you have to reclear security there anyway.

Arrivals does have customs, but that usually consists of handing over your entry form and getting a stamp in your passport (or a receipt if you used birth certificate & DL to enter).

exerda

I don't believe the lighter would have been prohibited unless Greece had laws against carrying one on a plane, or DL had a policy against it. The TSA and congressional policies against lighters don't have much sway over flights originating outside the US (like Richard Reid's did .... )

ralfp

Something is fishy about this article:

Maybe from the other end of the aisle (from the galley area at the front of the 1st class cabin)?

apirchik

The article was for Stuff magazine, don't expect it to be 100% correct ...

I qouted it here because of the story with the "Congolese diplomats" which indeed carried weapons in their "diplomat cases" and did hijack the Pan Am plane after they were not allowed on the LY plane. This story is true. I agree that some details in the brave story of the captain and crew are more than a bit changed for the good story.

apirchik

On a recent flight I had a chat with a high ranking security officer in the Dutch embassy in Jakarta. He said that in some places in Jakarta they go over vehicles with metal detectors - the thing beeps as hell and of course they do not find anything and let you continue ...

GUWonder

High ranking security officer, Dutch embassy, Jakarta? Sounds a little oxymoronic in combination.

SDF_Traveler

I've been to some Australian airports which have limited security or security that only applies for some flights. A couple of examples:

I flew ROK-GKL (32 mile flight) and return using an unpressurized commuter aircraft (GKL = Great Keppel Island Airport, QLD, AU). Nice to open my passenger window and get a breeze

GKL is a basic paved airstrip; no control tower; no taxiways - aircraft turn around on runway and just use that to get to the ramp. One simply walks over to the airstrip where the "terminal" is very small building. Boarding passes are issued at a small desk, a few seats exist, and there is a WTMD and one x-ray machine. Very lax and laid back. For safety demo, co-pilot turns around in his seat and gives a quick, basic briefing.

For "small" flights from ROK like my flight to GKL or a Dash-8 milkrun I did from ROK to CNS there is a security checkpoint to the gate, but no employees present to screen passengers. One just walks through an unmanned WTMD with carry-on luggage and goes out to the ramp to board when announced. The WTMD & X-Ray is manned for other flights, such as the BNE-ROK / ROK-BNE flight which used BAe-146 equipment at the time I took it (BNE=Brisbane).

My Dash-8 "milkrun" was:

ROK-MKY (173 miles) MKY=Mackay, QLD, AU
MKY-TSV (205 miles) TSV=Townsville, QLD, AU
TSV-CNS (176 miles) CNS=Cairns, QLD, AU

While TSV was a stop, I know they do have a proper security setup as I have done an O/D flight on a QF 737 from TSV to SYD which arrived airside for connections. I don't know about MKY, as that is a very small airport and passengers had to stay on the aircraft. Upon arrival in CNS, which is a major Intl airport, when we deplaned we were dumped directly landside because of the lack of security screening for this flight. (OT: this is one of the most scenic flights in Australia one can take, providing wx is clear, and you have a window seat on the right because it goes up the coastline of the Great Barrier Reef ).

I haven't been to ROK or GKL lately, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was still laid back. A lot of small airports outside of the USA operate with minimal security for puddle jumper flights, but once you reach a major airport you're properly screened (or re-screened) prior to taking a proper flight on a large aircraft. I've even experienced this in the US prior to 9/11 at small airports like PUW (but I was dumped into the secure SEA terminal upon arrival with that one .

SDF_Traveler