Community
Wiki Posts
Search

Schengen

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 2:28 am
  #16  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London and Zurich
Programs: AA, BA, Mucci: Sir Roger des Directions Routičres, PCR
Posts: 13,609
Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
Does anyone else think the Schengen Agreement is the worst thing for European security?

I cannot understand why in a post-September 11 world the various European countries continue to allow the “free movement” of persons with essentially no border control.
No. The Schengen agreement predates the NY attacks and has proved successful.

There are many Europeans (including me) who find Immigration checks at FRA and elsewhere when arriving from the UK and on returning to the UK tiresome and unnecessary.

Originally Posted by GUWONDER
Should NY set up a border check when people come from CT? Should Illinois set up border checkpoints along its border with Iowa? Why not?
Well, there are the border checks between Arizona and California . Ah, no, they're 'Agricultural', so that's all right, then .

Then there was the diversion of traffic on the freeway between Nogales AZ and Tucson AZ - the only freeway with distances in km - where we were 'interviewed' at the top of the offramp by what looked like state police. As we were gringos with CA license plates, the cop asked 'Going home?' meaning LA, presumably. I managed my best Cary Grant accent to say 'Well yes, actually, officer' and we were waved on our way. But not exactly free movement.

Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
Europe is not a country and it looks like that won't happen anytime soon judging by the recent no votes in France and the Netherlands.

There should be border control.
Europe is a continent. The Schengen agreement is between 12 members of the EU. The EU is not the same as Europe. As explained elsewhere, there are border controls.

re Switzerland. The Swiss already enjoy free movement with EU and EEA countries under the bilaterals. Entering the UK, they join the same lines as UK and other EU and EEA member nationals. The same applies in reverse, i.e. EU/EEA nationals enter Switzerland on the same terms as the Swiss.

The Swiss voted in the last referendum to join the Schengen agreement - logical when they are surrounded by Schengen countries. There remains some tidying up to be done. Chances are Switzerland will be a 'better' notional EU member in this respect than actual members the UK, Ireland and Denmark .

Also, free movement between Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and France predated the Schengen agreement with no apparent harm to security

As part of the free movement rules, foreigners including other EU citizens in a Schengen state do need identity documents.

Last edited by Roger; Jun 15, 2005 at 2:38 am Reason: typo
Roger is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 2:42 am
  #17  
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Switzerland/Atlanta,GA
Programs: Executive Club Gold/Frequence Plus Red
Posts: 1,756
Many subjects at once...

I do hate taxes as well but the CHF 40.- do not bother me as the road tolls in other countries....

Just for your information: The Swiss sticker HAS to be glued immediately on the windshield. If caught having one but not stuck, there is an additional CHF 100.- in fine.

Beware also that in Italy a bright safety vest (yellow or organge) MUST be in the vehicle. The Italian police is very keen on the fine

Customs in Switzerland: Switzerland does not belong to Schengen. As such they are REQUIRED from the EU to have border personnel and they do random checks. A few weeks ago, however, the Swiss voted in a referendum to be part of Schengen, so within a year you will not have the feeling they are battling the unemployment statistics. They WILL be unemployed...

When renting a car out of Milan, REQUEST a car with the sticker for Switzerland. They will accommodate you.
magexpect is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 2:47 am
  #18  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, In Memoriam
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yiron, Israel
Programs: Bates Motel Plat
Posts: 69,201
Originally Posted by magexpect
When renting a car out of Milan, REQUEST a car with the sticker for Switzerland. They will accommodate you.
I have done that repeatedly with both Avis and Hertz but with no luck.
Dovster is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 2:48 am
  #19  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London and Zurich
Programs: AA, BA, Mucci: Sir Roger des Directions Routičres, PCR
Posts: 13,609
Originally Posted by magexpect
I do hate taxes as well but the CHF 40.- do not bother me as the road tolls in other countries....

Just for your information: The Swiss sticker HAS to be glued immediately on the windshield. If caught having one but not stuck, there is an additional CHF 100.- in fine.

Beware also that in Italy a bright safety vest (yellow or organge) MUST be in the vehicle. The Italian police is very keen on the fine
Quite right, especially when compared with road tolls in France! I just wonder how much of the CHF 40 is spent on administration. It hardly seems worth the bother.

About sticking on to the windscreen, I am told that if you want to transfer the sticker to another car, you can't. The sticker is designed to disintegrate if you try. However, if you first stick it on to a piece if clear polythene and apply the polythene side on to the windscreen, it is removable. Of course, I don't know this from experience .

The safey vest requirement for ALL occupants is becoming mandatory in some other EU countries. Soon, we'll all need them. I just picked up my new car in the UK and yellow vests were included with the safety equipment .
Roger is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 2:49 am
  #20  
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Switzerland/Atlanta,GA
Programs: Executive Club Gold/Frequence Plus Red
Posts: 1,756
Originally Posted by Dovster
I can tell you that there is no difference in the treatment I am given when using my American passport as opposed to my Israeli.
Israelis are as privileged as Americans when coming to Switzerland, a little bit the same as the status for the countries under the Visa Waiver Program in the US.
It would be different if you had a Syrian, Lebanese or Saudi passport, believe you me...
magexpect is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 2:52 am
  #21  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London and Zurich
Programs: AA, BA, Mucci: Sir Roger des Directions Routičres, PCR
Posts: 13,609
Originally Posted by Dovster
I have done that repeatedly with both Avis and Hertz but with no luck.
I guess because they are in Italy where variable road tolls apply. Can't really blame them for not increasing their costs by paying for a foreign tax. Rent in Switzerland and you get a Swiss sticker.

I haven't rented in Austria since they introduced a simlar system to the Swiss, but I imagine the Austrian renters would include the sticker.
Roger is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 3:03 am
  #22  
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Switzerland/Atlanta,GA
Programs: Executive Club Gold/Frequence Plus Red
Posts: 1,756
Originally Posted by Roger
About sticking on to the windscreen, I am told that if you want to transfer the sticker to another car, you can't. The sticker is designed to disintegrate if you try. However, if you first stick it on to a piece if clear polythene and apply the polythene side on to the windscreen, it is removable. Of course, I don't know this from experience .
Not only you can't, but it is not allowed. The sticker will disintegrate but worse, trying to stick it to plythene is considered a crime (like tax evasion in the US) and the fines ARE horrendous. Don't ever try it.
magexpect is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 3:16 am
  #23  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, In Memoriam
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yiron, Israel
Programs: Bates Motel Plat
Posts: 69,201
Originally Posted by Roger
I guess because they are in Italy where variable road tolls apply. Can't really blame them for not increasing their costs by paying for a foreign tax. Rent in Switzerland and you get a Swiss sticker.
I don't expect them to pay for these stickers. However, given the fact that so many cars rented at MXP are driven into the Lugano area I would expect that after the first few months of any year most of them would have stickers paid for by other renters.

I can't understand why I never managed to get one.
Dovster is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 3:20 am
  #24  
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Switzerland/Atlanta,GA
Programs: Executive Club Gold/Frequence Plus Red
Posts: 1,756
Originally Posted by Dovster
I can't understand why I never managed to get one.
Probably just bad luck, I suppose.
If you are coming this way soon , I still have one that was offered to me, I'll gladly send it to you.
magexpect is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 3:26 am
  #25  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, In Memoriam
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yiron, Israel
Programs: Bates Motel Plat
Posts: 69,201
Originally Posted by magexpect
Probably just bad luck, I suppose.
If you are coming this way soon , I still have one that was offered to me, I'll gladly send it to you.
I appreciate the offer but about a year ago my UIG bought a bigger car so now when we go to Lugano we take her already-stickered car.
Dovster is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 3:41 am
  #26  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London and Zurich
Programs: AA, BA, Mucci: Sir Roger des Directions Routičres, PCR
Posts: 13,609
Originally Posted by magexpect
Don't ever try it.
Who? Me? No, seriously I haven't and wouldn't - it's not necessary for me.

I just think that CHF 40 is such an inconsequential sum - introduced (at a lower rate) to support the building of the motorway system which is now just about complete, so rationally it should disappear - though taxes don't disappear, do they ? CHF 40 for a year is not too bad, for a weekend it is too much.
Roger is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 5:43 am
  #27  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
25 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,337
My easy way of avoiding the Swiss toll is to pretend it doesn't exist. I've driven into CH many, many times with rental cars from other countries and a couple of times with my own car. I've never had a problem.

One time I went through a very lightly used Swiss border checkpoint and the guard asked me a bunch of questions and looked at my passport. But I think he was just bored and eventually he waved me through. I was driving a French Avis Mercedes.
stimpy is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 5:50 am
  #28  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, In Memoriam
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yiron, Israel
Programs: Bates Motel Plat
Posts: 69,201
Originally Posted by stimpy
My easy way of avoiding the Swiss toll is to pretend it doesn't exist. I've driven into CH many, many times with rental cars from other countries and a couple of times with my own car. I've never had a problem.

One time I went through a very lightly used Swiss border checkpoint and the guard asked me a bunch of questions and looked at my passport. But I think he was just bored and eventually he waved me through. I was driving a French Avis Mercedes.
If you do not enter Swizerland on the autostrada you will not have to buy the sticker. It is not required for use on regular roads.

You are, of course, subject to a fine if you later get on the autostrada but no Swiss policeman has ever gotten close enough to my car to see if I have one. Just make certain that when you leave the country you also go through a non-autostrada road.
Dovster is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 5:53 am
  #29  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
25 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,337
Originally Posted by Dovster
If you do not enter Swizerland on the autostrada you will not have to buy the sticker. It is not required for use on regular roads.

You are, of course, subject to a fine if you later get on the autostrada but no Swiss policeman has ever gotten close enough to my car to see if I have one. Just make certain that when you leave the country you also go through a non-autostrada road.
I've come and gone on both autostrada and non autostrada roads. Never a problem.
stimpy is offline  
Old Jun 15, 2005 | 6:35 am
  #30  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Miami, FL
Programs: AA EXP/Marriott Plat/Hertz PC
Posts: 12,724
Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
Europe is not a country and it looks like that won't happen anytime soon judging by the recent no votes in France and the Netherlands.

There should be border control.

And there are no checks on the Denmark-Sweden border to my knowledge.
I think that whenever people propose policy, they should be able to point to an actual problem that they are trying to solve. Then, everyone can look at the problem and look at the solution and see if the solution solves the problem.

Now, what is the problem? You see the lack of border security as a problem. But is it? I don't think so. No one is dying or hurt because of that lack of security. Now, if there were an actual problem, like terrorists sneaking from Paris to London to do dirty deeds, well then we might have to look for a solution.

The world has enough problems. We should concentrate on the ones that actually exist.
whirledtraveler is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.