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Old Feb 3, 2005 | 10:16 pm
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Bart
If you are telling me that you had no earthly idea that lighters and matches were not permitted in your checked luggage all this time (this regulation has remained unchanged and was in effect prior to 9/11), then I truly don't know what to say.
I didn't know until this week (while reading these 2 threads about lighters) that lighters and matches were not permitted in checked luggage. I fly almost weekly and it's never been brought to my attention. Maybe the airlines and the TSA should be doing a better job of informing the flying public?
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Old Feb 3, 2005 | 10:43 pm
  #92  
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I know that Delta's website has it -- just type it in the search box.
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Old Feb 3, 2005 | 11:07 pm
  #93  
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Originally Posted by PatrickHenry1775
Where may one find the Contract of Carriage? I have been bored and looked for the CofC on several websites, but have not found one.
AA's C of C is pretty easy to find on aa.com:

http://www.aa.com/content/customerSe...Carriage.jhtml
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Old Feb 4, 2005 | 7:22 am
  #94  
 
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird
Such 'advice' is contained in the Contract of Carriage of every airline. The fact that not 1 in 100 passengers ever bothers to apprise themselves of the CofC is no excuse. Just watch any episode of Airline
There is a link to AA's CoC posted here and I looked at that one. Where does it say lighters and matches are prohibited? I just scrolled quickly through the baggage section and didn't see anything about it. There is a sentence that refers to an AA Ticket Office for more information, but I don't call that "contained in the CoC".
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Old Feb 4, 2005 | 9:35 am
  #95  
 
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Originally Posted by L-1011
There is a link to AA's CoC posted here and I looked at that one. Where does it say lighters and matches are prohibited? I just scrolled quickly through the baggage section and didn't see anything about it. There is a sentence that refers to an AA Ticket Office for more information, but I don't call that "contained in the CoC".
You're right that it does not appear to be specified in the CofC page per se, but it is on a different page on the website.
Safety Matches and/or a Lighter may only be carried on your person. However, "strike-anywhere" matches, lighters with flammable liquid reservoirs and lighter fluid are forbidden. There is a maximum of 4 books and 2 lighters per person.
But like I said who bothers to look this stuff up before flying ? Some (most ?) airports have signs by the checkin and/or security checkpoint indicating prohibited items, but as our TSA contributors rightly observe, passengers don't read signs either
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Old Feb 4, 2005 | 10:18 am
  #96  
 
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Exclamation TSA Directive

Straight from IATA:

We have been advised by the US Transportation Security Administration (TSA)
International Operations Department that under recent legislation passed by the US Congress and signed into law by the President, TSA is required to implement a ban on the carriage of butane lighters by passengers on any flight
originating in, destined to or operating within the United States by 15
February, 2004. We have asked the TSA to provide a copy of the legislation and implementing regulations/measures which we will provide as soon as it is
received.

TSA has emphasized that since this measure is mandated by legislation it has no choice but to implement by the 15 February - there is no possibility to reverse or change this requirement. TSA has also indicated that they are considering extending the ban to all lighters (regardless of the type of fuel) and possibly matches as well to be consistent based on the nature of the threat they believe exists.

We are providing this preliminary information to provide as much advance notice as possible of this requirement, however we cannot guarantee the completeness of this information until we receive the official documentation from TSA. TSA has asked for IATA's assistance to facilitate implementation of this measure, especially outside the United States and IATA has agreed to provide TSA with input and our views on the issue as quickly as possible. While we raise some financial issues for this email, we will not be emphasizing these in our discussions with TSA, rather we will stick to technical and customer services issues and concerns.

At this time via internal discussions and ad hoc discussions with Member air
carriers we have identified several issues to raise to TSA, including:

1) Air carriers in many cases are not responsible for passenger/baggage preboard screening. Confiscation of such items at check in in many cases is not possible due to lack of storage facilities for such items which are considered dangerous goods (hazardous materials) when present in sufficient quantities. Also air carriers may be liable for the costs of disposal.

2) TSA must co-ordinate implementation with appropriate State authorities to
ensure smooth implementation with the screening authorities in each affected
State.

3) The ban as mandated by Congress only includes lighters fuelled by butane. It is not practical that security screeners will be able to readily differentiate
between butane and other liquid fuelled lighters. Also matches are not included
in the ban. This inconsistency will undermine passenger confidence.

4) In many cases this ban, for operational and customer service reasons, will
need to be extended to all flights as it will be impractical to implement separate measures for US bound flights.

5) Duty free stores and other retail outlets located within sterile areas at
many airports as well as some air carrier duty free sales of butane and
possibly other lighters will have to be stopped. Airports and air carriers may
have substantial inventories of such items resulting in financial penalty.

6) Customer service issues will arise as it is impractical to think that all
passengers will be fully aware of the ban prior to arrival at the airport.
While confiscation of cheaper plastic lighters may not cause a problem, should
a traveller be in possession of a more expensive lighter they will be very
reluctant to give up such an item. Movement by cargo or mail is either
restricted to some extent or prohibited.

7) Knowing about the ban, passengers may be tempted to place such lighters into their checked baggage where they will pose a major safety hazard. There are a number of recorded incidents of lighters in passenger baggage and cargo
shipments initiating fires which fortunately to this point have not caused
known injuries or fatalities.
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Old Feb 4, 2005 | 10:26 am
  #97  
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I certainly hope that the the IATA sends a copy of that statement to every voter in Oregon and North Dakota.
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Old Feb 4, 2005 | 11:55 am
  #98  
 
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Originally Posted by Wally Bird
You're right that it does not appear to be specified in the CofC page per se, but it is on a different page on the website.
But like I said who bothers to look this stuff up before flying ? Some (most ?) airports have signs by the checkin and/or security checkpoint indicating prohibited items, but as our TSA contributors rightly observe, passengers don't read signs either
All,

Thank you for the links. Next time that I have insomnia, I will read these pages. One problem that I have with this whole issue of prohibited items is the arbitrary nature of the regulation(s) allowing TSA to designate certain items as prohibited. One example is the prohibition on all lighters, but allowing 2 books of matches. The legislation did not ban all lighters, but I guess it is simpler for TSA to unilaterally ban all so that screeners do not have to differentiate between allowed and prohibited items.
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Old Feb 4, 2005 | 1:09 pm
  #99  
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Originally Posted by KevAZ
Straight from IATA:

...

7) Knowing about the ban, passengers may be tempted to place such lighters into their checked baggage where they will pose a major safety hazard. There are a number of recorded incidents of lighters in passenger baggage and cargo
shipments initiating fires which fortunately to this point have not caused
known injuries or fatalities.
Well, I wouldn't call it a "major" safety hazard, but it is worth noting that the small increase in risk associated with the inevitable increase in checked lighters will exceed the current zero risk associated with allowing lighters in the passenger cabin.
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