Informative TSA Answer
Jan 31, 2005 | 9:02 am
#76
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Originally Posted by vegasman
I was transferred to an outsource company in INDIA. Imaging that, our own government outsourcing federal jobs to India. That sure sets an example. Well, the person who answered said no, not even an empty lighter. Doesn't make any sense at all. You cannot carry butane fuel, so what danger is there in an empty lighter????
(Note: Above statement does not apply to anyone who actually understands Hindustani. If that case, the answer will be provided in Swahili.)
Jan 31, 2005 | 9:35 am
#77
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by vegasman
To Dovster. I had a similar question. I smoke cigars, and asked if it was ok to carry on an EMPTY butane lighter. I waited 5 days for a reply, and got the same answer that you did. CAll them. Well I tried that and after ringing and ringing for what seemed like forever, I was transferred to an outsource company in INDIA. Imaging that, our own government outsourcing federal jobs to India. That sure sets an example. Well, the person who answered said no, not even an empty lighter. Doesn't make any sense at all. You cannot carry butane fuel, so what danger is there in an empty lighter????
Needless to say, TSA opened my checked luggage, left a note, and stole my lighter. (I had that lighter almost 25 years, and it came with me to two wars, and I carried it literally HUNDREDS of times in my pocket on board a plane. I called TSA. Nope - can't have it back. Nope - it will be destrpyed in San Diego. Nope - there is no supervisor for you to talk with. Nope - you were never allowed to carry a lighter - even in your checked luggage.)
I think this is my third retelling of this story in various postings - it still galls me what TSA did.
Jan 31, 2005 | 7:26 pm
#78
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Arizona USA
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If you want to see what happens with the lack of profiling, run the gaunlet through DTW. America's largest Arab population has the TSA setting the screening devices off at the most sensitive level. I take off my insulin pump (makes it through every international and domestic scan but DTW), my belt (only place I have to do that) and even gum wrapper foil in my pockets.
Yet last week, I picked up a dime in our office and dropped it into my pocket. I don't carry any change in my pockets, so never thought about taking it out after nearly stripping for the DTW TSA. Still.......BEEEEEEP! Full search, barely short of rubber gloved treatment.
I want to register my retina and finger prints along with all of my personal info and get through without this kind of bother.
I know, the "black helicopter" crowd will respond with why we need to be ready to overthrow the US Government (Hell I HATE TSA Peeps, but I'll do anything to get around their low IQ people!) If you're in this group, please check out this web site
Good thing I'm American/Dutch and look it. With a bit more of a tan I think the rubber gloved treatment would have been mandatory from the local TSA Czar.
Yet last week, I picked up a dime in our office and dropped it into my pocket. I don't carry any change in my pockets, so never thought about taking it out after nearly stripping for the DTW TSA. Still.......BEEEEEEP! Full search, barely short of rubber gloved treatment.
I want to register my retina and finger prints along with all of my personal info and get through without this kind of bother.
I know, the "black helicopter" crowd will respond with why we need to be ready to overthrow the US Government (Hell I HATE TSA Peeps, but I'll do anything to get around their low IQ people!) If you're in this group, please check out this web site
Good thing I'm American/Dutch and look it. With a bit more of a tan I think the rubber gloved treatment would have been mandatory from the local TSA Czar.
Jan 31, 2005 | 7:36 pm
#79
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Originally Posted by TWA4Ever
I had that lighter almost 25 years, and it came with me to two wars, and I carried it literally HUNDREDS of times in my pocket on board a plane. I called TSA. Nope - can't have it back. Nope - it will be destrpyed in San Diego. Nope - there is no supervisor for you to talk with. Nope - you were never allowed to carry a lighter - even in your checked luggage
Feb 1, 2005 | 6:34 am
#80
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by trixievictoria
I wonder why you could not get it back. How sad because it meant a lot to you it was more of a keepsake and treasure than just plain old lighter.
At the time, I was informed by the less-than-helpful TSA phone rep that all items confiscated will be destroyed (after all, apparently I was engaging in some sort of criminal/terrorist activity - and that was her demeanor on the phone). She said it didn't matter what it was (or even if TSA was wrong), if it were confiscated, it will be destroyed. That is why I could not retrieve it.
Feb 1, 2005 | 11:22 am
#81
Join Date: Jan 2004
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check on ebay
There was a rumor that circulated around LAX a while back that the items that were confiscated, albeit not switchblades or dangerous weapons, were sold to a liquidator and they were on Ebay. I don't know if it's true or not, but there was something said about the money going into the general fund. As with most things at LAX not much could be verified (this was under Adm. Stones tenure as FSD) so I am not certain about it. Just thought I would put it out as a suggestion to check Ebay and you might just find it.
ab53
ab53
Feb 1, 2005 | 1:36 pm
#82
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 132
"The Transportation Security Administration doesn't 'confiscate' items at checkpoints, spokeswoman Yolanda Clark said. Rather, they are 'surrendered,' she said."
"Millions of 'voluntarily abandoned' items are left at checkpoints during the year, she said. The agency follows U.S. General Services Administration regulations in disposing of voluntarily abandoned property, she said."
"At some airports, the items are turned over to lost and found departments and then discarded after a certain period of time. At others, the state agency collects the items and distributes or disposes of them according to state regulations."
Source: Q & A: Confiscated Items, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune (1/6/05)
"Millions of 'voluntarily abandoned' items are left at checkpoints during the year, she said. The agency follows U.S. General Services Administration regulations in disposing of voluntarily abandoned property, she said."
"At some airports, the items are turned over to lost and found departments and then discarded after a certain period of time. At others, the state agency collects the items and distributes or disposes of them according to state regulations."
Source: Q & A: Confiscated Items, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune (1/6/05)
Feb 1, 2005 | 8:29 pm
#83
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: AA, WN RR
Posts: 3,122
Originally Posted by Screeners Central
"The Transportation Security Administration doesn't 'confiscate' items at checkpoints, spokeswoman Yolanda Clark said. Rather, they are 'surrendered,' she said."
"Millions of 'voluntarily abandoned' items are left at checkpoints during the year, she said. The agency follows U.S. General Services Administration regulations in disposing of voluntarily abandoned property, she said."
"At some airports, the items are turned over to lost and found departments and then discarded after a certain period of time. At others, the state agency collects the items and distributes or disposes of them according to state regulations."
Source: Q & A: Confiscated Items, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune (1/6/05)
"Millions of 'voluntarily abandoned' items are left at checkpoints during the year, she said. The agency follows U.S. General Services Administration regulations in disposing of voluntarily abandoned property, she said."
"At some airports, the items are turned over to lost and found departments and then discarded after a certain period of time. At others, the state agency collects the items and distributes or disposes of them according to state regulations."
Source: Q & A: Confiscated Items, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune (1/6/05)
Feb 1, 2005 | 8:47 pm
#84
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Originally Posted by PatrickHenry1775
Rep. Mica hit the nail on the head with his comment about Soviet-style bureaucracy. This is an excellent example of Orwellian newspeak.
Feb 2, 2005 | 6:34 am
#85
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by Screeners Central
"The Transportation Security Administration doesn't 'confiscate' items at checkpoints, spokeswoman Yolanda Clark said. Rather, they are 'surrendered,' she said."
"Millions of 'voluntarily abandoned' items are left at checkpoints during the year, she said. The agency follows U.S. General Services Administration regulations in disposing of voluntarily abandoned property, she said."
"At some airports, the items are turned over to lost and found departments and then discarded after a certain period of time. At others, the state agency collects the items and distributes or disposes of them according to state regulations."
Source: Q & A: Confiscated Items, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune (1/6/05)
"Millions of 'voluntarily abandoned' items are left at checkpoints during the year, she said. The agency follows U.S. General Services Administration regulations in disposing of voluntarily abandoned property, she said."
"At some airports, the items are turned over to lost and found departments and then discarded after a certain period of time. At others, the state agency collects the items and distributes or disposes of them according to state regulations."
Source: Q & A: Confiscated Items, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune (1/6/05)
Feb 2, 2005 | 7:33 am
#86
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,389
Originally Posted by TWA4Ever
No items are "surrendered" when the owner of same has no idea they are being taken, is not informed in a timely manner, and is not even in the same room! Something removed from your luggage without your consent is either "confiscated" (government-speak) or "stolen" (normal-people-speak).
At the screening checkpoint, you should be given several options on how you can keep a prohibited item. Keep in mind that illegal items such as narcotics, certain martial arts weapons and firearms fall under a different category and will be confiscated by a law enforcement officer not a screener. The options for keeping a prohibited item are:
1. Return to the airline ticket counter with the prohibited item to have it checked in. Some airlines will package it for you, others will require you to check in an additional piece of luggage. If you already met your limit for checked baggage, you may incur an additional cost for additional luggage. That's airline policy not TSA policy. Most passengers refuse this offer because they don't want to go stand in line at the ticket counter again and then go back into another line for security.
2. Give the prohibited item to a non-travelling companion. The problem here is that most people who drop off passengers usually leave right away.
3. Take the prohibited item back to your car. Of course, this is only practical if you live in the departure city and drove your car to the airport.
4. Mail the item. Some airports offer a mailing service. This is not the same as the US Post Office, so you're going to pay extra for that service. Most passengers reject this offer because it costs around $7 to mail a $2 pair of scissors. Of course, if the item is expensive, such as a torch or cigar lighter, then this may be a worthwhile option.
5. Surrender the item to TSA. We place it in an amnesty box. However, once you surrender the item, you cannot get it back. It's a one-time and final action. Some supervisors have been known to temporarily hold items for people who are not travelling but are instead escorting underaged minors or elderly parents to the gate. This is a violation of TSA policy, and some supervisors see this as a customer courtesy. I refuse to hold anything for anyone. I've been burned by people who later made outrageous claims, so this is one area where I stick to the absolute letter of the law.
As I said, you're probably not interested in these options because to you (and most other people) the inconvenience of properly disposing a prohibited item is not worth the extra hassle. So it's easier to accuse TSA of confiscating the item. If TSA screeners are not giving you these options, then you have a valid complaint, and I urge you to complain in writing to the airport FSD, airport manager, airline station manager and/or your Congressional representative.2. Give the prohibited item to a non-travelling companion. The problem here is that most people who drop off passengers usually leave right away.
3. Take the prohibited item back to your car. Of course, this is only practical if you live in the departure city and drove your car to the airport.
4. Mail the item. Some airports offer a mailing service. This is not the same as the US Post Office, so you're going to pay extra for that service. Most passengers reject this offer because it costs around $7 to mail a $2 pair of scissors. Of course, if the item is expensive, such as a torch or cigar lighter, then this may be a worthwhile option.
5. Surrender the item to TSA. We place it in an amnesty box. However, once you surrender the item, you cannot get it back. It's a one-time and final action. Some supervisors have been known to temporarily hold items for people who are not travelling but are instead escorting underaged minors or elderly parents to the gate. This is a violation of TSA policy, and some supervisors see this as a customer courtesy. I refuse to hold anything for anyone. I've been burned by people who later made outrageous claims, so this is one area where I stick to the absolute letter of the law.
Checked baggage falls under a different category. To you, this may seem like I'm splitting hairs; however, here's my perspective. When you check your bag in or hand it to a TSA screener, you should either be asked or there should be signs posted advising you that matches and lighters are prohibited from transport inside of checked luggage. If there are signs posted, the screener (or airline representative) is not obligated to ask you if you have these items in your baggage. By law, you've been advised. Nonetheless, I have my screeners still ask the question. If matches or lighters are discovered inside your checked luggage, they are automatically confiscated by TSA screeners. These are the only items that screeners are allowed to confiscate automatically. With everything else, either an airline representative or law enforcement officer is notified, depending on the item. For example, if hazardous material is found, such as a bottle of liquid bleach or non-toiletry aerosol can, an airline ground security coordinator, or GSC, is notified. The airline GSC is authorized to remove hazmat from passenger bags, TSA screeners are not (except for the two items I mentioned above). At this point, we cannot control how the airlines handle this. Most of the airlines I work with notify the passenger either immediately or in writing afterwards about the hazardous material removed from their bag. Again, not all airlines follow the same policy. If the item is an undeclared firearm, illegal drugs or other illegal/dangerous item, the LEO will confiscate it and the passenger will be notified immediately. That's because these situations normally end in an arrest because a crime has been committed.
Naysayers will attack this post accusing me of splitting hairs. It's your responsibility to make sure your bags are packed properly. The TSA web site publishes a list of what you may and may not take with you and which items you can and cannot place in checked baggage. IMHO, it appears that it's easier for people to dodge personal responsibility by blaming TSA screeners. This is a trend in our society, so I'm not surprised that people don't own up to their own actions. We've been following generally these same policies for three years now. Of all people who should know these policies, I thought frequent flyers would know better. But then again, that's an assumption on my part.
Just telling it like it is. None of this is meant to be personal.
Feb 2, 2005 | 9:11 am
#87
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by Bart
You probably aren't interested anyway, but here it goes:
At the screening checkpoint, you should be given several options on how you can keep a prohibited item. Keep in mind that illegal items such as narcotics, certain martial arts weapons and firearms fall under a different category and will be confiscated by a law enforcement officer not a screener. The options for keeping a prohibited item are:
Checked baggage falls under a different category. To you, this may seem like I'm splitting hairs; however, here's my perspective. When you check your bag in or hand it to a TSA screener, you should either be asked or there should be signs posted advising you that matches and lighters are prohibited from transport inside of checked luggage. If there are signs posted, the screener (or airline representative) is not obligated to ask you if you have these items in your baggage. By law, you've been advised. Nonetheless, I have my screeners still ask the question. If matches or lighters are discovered inside your checked luggage, they are automatically confiscated by TSA screeners. These are the only items that screeners are allowed to confiscate automatically. With everything else, either an airline representative or law enforcement officer is notified, depending on the item. For example, if hazardous material is found, such as a bottle of liquid bleach or non-toiletry aerosol can, an airline ground security coordinator, or GSC, is notified. The airline GSC is authorized to remove hazmat from passenger bags, TSA screeners are not (except for the two items I mentioned above). At this point, we cannot control how the airlines handle this. Most of the airlines I work with notify the passenger either immediately or in writing afterwards about the hazardous material removed from their bag. Again, not all airlines follow the same policy. If the item is an undeclared firearm, illegal drugs or other illegal/dangerous item, the LEO will confiscate it and the passenger will be notified immediately. That's because these situations normally end in an arrest because a crime has been committed.
Naysayers will attack this post accusing me of splitting hairs. It's your responsibility to make sure your bags are packed properly. The TSA web site publishes a list of what you may and may not take with you and which items you can and cannot place in checked baggage. IMHO, it appears that it's easier for people to dodge personal responsibility by blaming TSA screeners. This is a trend in our society, so I'm not surprised that people don't own up to their own actions. We've been following generally these same policies for three years now. Of all people who should know these policies, I thought frequent flyers would know better. But then again, that's an assumption on my part.
Just telling it like it is. None of this is meant to be personal.
At the screening checkpoint, you should be given several options on how you can keep a prohibited item. Keep in mind that illegal items such as narcotics, certain martial arts weapons and firearms fall under a different category and will be confiscated by a law enforcement officer not a screener. The options for keeping a prohibited item are:
1. Return to the airline ticket counter with the prohibited item to have it checked in. Some airlines will package it for you, others will require you to check in an additional piece of luggage. If you already met your limit for checked baggage, you may incur an additional cost for additional luggage. That's airline policy not TSA policy. Most passengers refuse this offer because they don't want to go stand in line at the ticket counter again and then go back into another line for security.
2. Give the prohibited item to a non-travelling companion. The problem here is that most people who drop off passengers usually leave right away.
3. Take the prohibited item back to your car. Of course, this is only practical if you live in the departure city and drove your car to the airport.
4. Mail the item. Some airports offer a mailing service. This is not the same as the US Post Office, so you're going to pay extra for that service. Most passengers reject this offer because it costs around $7 to mail a $2 pair of scissors. Of course, if the item is expensive, such as a torch or cigar lighter, then this may be a worthwhile option.
5. Surrender the item to TSA. We place it in an amnesty box. However, once you surrender the item, you cannot get it back. It's a one-time and final action. Some supervisors have been known to temporarily hold items for people who are not travelling but are instead escorting underaged minors or elderly parents to the gate. This is a violation of TSA policy, and some supervisors see this as a customer courtesy. I refuse to hold anything for anyone. I've been burned by people who later made outrageous claims, so this is one area where I stick to the absolute letter of the law.
As I said, you're probably not interested in these options because to you (and most other people) the inconvenience of properly disposing a prohibited item is not worth the extra hassle. So it's easier to accuse TSA of confiscating the item. If TSA screeners are not giving you these options, then you have a valid complaint, and I urge you to complain in writing to the airport FSD, airport manager, airline station manager and/or your Congressional representative.2. Give the prohibited item to a non-travelling companion. The problem here is that most people who drop off passengers usually leave right away.
3. Take the prohibited item back to your car. Of course, this is only practical if you live in the departure city and drove your car to the airport.
4. Mail the item. Some airports offer a mailing service. This is not the same as the US Post Office, so you're going to pay extra for that service. Most passengers reject this offer because it costs around $7 to mail a $2 pair of scissors. Of course, if the item is expensive, such as a torch or cigar lighter, then this may be a worthwhile option.
5. Surrender the item to TSA. We place it in an amnesty box. However, once you surrender the item, you cannot get it back. It's a one-time and final action. Some supervisors have been known to temporarily hold items for people who are not travelling but are instead escorting underaged minors or elderly parents to the gate. This is a violation of TSA policy, and some supervisors see this as a customer courtesy. I refuse to hold anything for anyone. I've been burned by people who later made outrageous claims, so this is one area where I stick to the absolute letter of the law.
Checked baggage falls under a different category. To you, this may seem like I'm splitting hairs; however, here's my perspective. When you check your bag in or hand it to a TSA screener, you should either be asked or there should be signs posted advising you that matches and lighters are prohibited from transport inside of checked luggage. If there are signs posted, the screener (or airline representative) is not obligated to ask you if you have these items in your baggage. By law, you've been advised. Nonetheless, I have my screeners still ask the question. If matches or lighters are discovered inside your checked luggage, they are automatically confiscated by TSA screeners. These are the only items that screeners are allowed to confiscate automatically. With everything else, either an airline representative or law enforcement officer is notified, depending on the item. For example, if hazardous material is found, such as a bottle of liquid bleach or non-toiletry aerosol can, an airline ground security coordinator, or GSC, is notified. The airline GSC is authorized to remove hazmat from passenger bags, TSA screeners are not (except for the two items I mentioned above). At this point, we cannot control how the airlines handle this. Most of the airlines I work with notify the passenger either immediately or in writing afterwards about the hazardous material removed from their bag. Again, not all airlines follow the same policy. If the item is an undeclared firearm, illegal drugs or other illegal/dangerous item, the LEO will confiscate it and the passenger will be notified immediately. That's because these situations normally end in an arrest because a crime has been committed.
Naysayers will attack this post accusing me of splitting hairs. It's your responsibility to make sure your bags are packed properly. The TSA web site publishes a list of what you may and may not take with you and which items you can and cannot place in checked baggage. IMHO, it appears that it's easier for people to dodge personal responsibility by blaming TSA screeners. This is a trend in our society, so I'm not surprised that people don't own up to their own actions. We've been following generally these same policies for three years now. Of all people who should know these policies, I thought frequent flyers would know better. But then again, that's an assumption on my part.
Just telling it like it is. None of this is meant to be personal.
No, there were no signs posted. No, no one asked me any questions. And this particular "hazardous" item probably had more flight hours that any TSA screener.
"We've been following generally these same policies for three years now."
And you would think that of the four dozen or so flights I've taken out of DCA in the past three years, some alert TSA screener would have "confiscated" this dangerous item. Usually, I just carried it in my pants pocket!
I hope some thief ... er, screener has no problem lighting his/her victory cigar with the lighter I carried in two wars.
Just telling it as it is. None of this is meant to be personal.
Feb 2, 2005 | 2:23 pm
#88
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,389
Originally Posted by TWA4Ever
If you would have taken the time to read my original post, you may have noticed that my empty Zippo was removed from my checked luggage - well after the luggage had scurried its way down the little conevryor belt and into the murky waters of TSA land...Usually, I just carried it in my pants pocket!
However, giving you the benefit of the doubt, I think you do have a valid complaint since neither TSA nor the airline advised you. You get no empathy from me for assuming that a screener stole your lighter. If you want to throw a tantrum over it, then do so and be done with it. I would think that after surviving combat you would have a better perspective. You're the one who brought up the sentimentality not I.
TSA will not be able to replace the lighter. I do urge you to submit a complaint so that those screeners follow correct procedure by advising passengers when accepting their checked luggage. Not calling you a liar, but these signs are pretty standard across the country. Is it possible that you didn't notice them?
Thank you for your service to the nation and welcome home.
RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
Feb 3, 2005 | 9:28 am
#89
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
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Posts: 8,972
Originally Posted by Bart
However, giving you the benefit of the doubt, I think you do have a valid complaint since neither TSA nor the airline advised you.
Feb 3, 2005 | 9:22 pm
#90
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: AA, WN RR
Posts: 3,122
Originally Posted by Wally Bird
Such 'advice' is contained in the Contract of Carriage of every airline. The fact that not 1 in 100 passengers ever bothers to apprise themselves of the CofC is no excuse. Just watch any episode of Airline