I don't know what has gotten into the minds of Americans post 9/11...

Let me give you a little situation. Pre 9/11 I was on a connecting flight in Germany. In between my LH flights I had to go through security. I buzzed in the metal detector and had the pat-down. Let me tell you it was tame in comparison to what people are accusing the TSA of. But the fact of the matter is that at the end of the day, I don't care how I was treated. The fact of the matter is that airport security is nothing new. Remember Lockerbie? I think we all want to prevent another one of those. If that means that I have a pat down that's fine. I have nothing to hide and it doesn't bother me!

Flash forward to the days after 9/11...

Americans were united and we promised that we would make a stand and not allow terrorism to infiltrate our airways again. People gave RESPECT to the TSA. There was no shouting or screaming at people who are doing an honest job making an honest living.

Flash forward to the days after Richard Reid...

People seem to forget that a major reason that your shoes are inspected is because someone tried to blow up a plane with his! For some reason it became a huge hassle to take off your shoes if you were asked to. If you don't want to, then charter a jet. I don't want someone jeopardizing my family's safety when we are on holiday because enough people complained about their "shoe hassle" that the policy was revoked. It's not a big deal! In fact, the TSA people are often a big fan of designer shoes from what I can see. I had a TSA employee ask me if my shoes were Ferragamos and she was right on the money!

Flash forward to today...

Once again the media has over hyped the travel season hassle of air travel. Yes, I know most of us travel for business and we have a family of 20 who flies maybe once per year in front of us at the security line. Yes, I know it can be frustrating. But come on people! If you are that inconvenienced and worried about missing your flight, just get to the airport earlier! We all have to work together. More people travel at this time of year, thus the lines are longer. BE PREPARED!

And as to the groping...

I was in JFK yesterday and was waiting to go through the metal detector. I saw a woman being patted down by another woman and screamed that she was being groped. COME ON! This woman had nothing to be proud of in the looks department and her personality also was pretty ugly when she said "Get your hands off me you low-wage TSA *****!" Look, people, let's get real here. Plenty of people are applying to work for th TSA. NONE of them want to risk their job being accused of sexual harassment. In fact, if I were a screener I would ask not to be assigned to that duty. I am amazed at the lack of respect that these FEDERAL EMPLOYEES get! If the FBI showed up at your house, I would bet that no one on this board would treat them with the disrespect that some of you give TSA employees! If you are going to be searched you have the right to ask for a member of the same sex to search you and you can be searched in a private area! I have never seen it denied!


This is a bigger problem overall. There is a serious lack of respect of authority post 9/11. I know we are all feeling venerable and afraid about terrorism; and some us dislike our administration. It is not an excuse to give the TSA a hard time though! As some of you like to refer to them with (un)clever acronyms, I say this; if you were treated as these people are treated on a day to day basis you would be grouchy also! For G-dsake people, haven't you ever heard the golden rule? IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THIS TIME OF YEAR! "Do to others as you would have them do to you" If you need to find it it is in Luke 6:31.

In closing, I have a question for the TSA screeners on this board...
There is a lovely group of TSA staffers at a small airport I fly out of every once in a while. They are truly funny and nice human beings and are just lovely. I know you can't tip a federal employee, can I give them a gift like nice chocolates or a donation to a charity in their names (I know most of them)? Or is a simple thank-you sufficient for they great job and service they provide?

That's my rant! If you want to flame me, fine! I think this is a topic that should be discussed in a season where we should reflect and treat each other with respect!

I don't think negative feelings have anything to do with feeling venerable and afraid about terrorism. Likewise, I doubt many people have a problem with your average Joe and Jane Screener; it's the government's "lack of respect" for civil liberties we have a problem with.

A simple thank you is more than sufficient. Monetary donations may violate the code of ethics as well as any gift.

As far as the disrespect from the public, it just comes with the job. Some like us, some tolerate us, and some hate us. We just learn to deal with it!

Speak for yourself. Unlike some people, I do not feel vulnerable and afraid of terrorism. And about the administration: I voted for President Bush twice now.

My disagreement with our airport security charade is not motivated by a serious lack of respect for authority. I'm tired of being treated like a criminal here in this country while not being treated like a criminal at airports in most other parts of the world. Over the years, I have learned how to recognize BS when I encounter it; The TSA and many of its practices set off my BS meter right away.

I couldn't care less if TSA employees are grouchy, nor do I care why.

Glad to hear about the person at JFK who objected to the gropefest. Hope more people do as she did.

TSA employees are strictly prohibited from accepting gifts from travelers at the checkpoint. For very good reasons, I might add.

What do airport checkpoints have to do with FBI agents at my house?

many have a problem with the organization as a whole. they might not have a problem with the individual screeners, but like grade school... they pass along their dislike to those that are the closest to them-the screeners. it's easier, and more gratifying than accepting the screening process. they make a point to show their disdain, and in my experience... pick the oddest points of contention.

an indivual did something similar even before the screener began, and was laughed at by about half of the people that came through the line after her.

fight the good fight, and entertain the rest of us.

New(er) to FT and I've basically tried to stay out of the TSA fights that are often posted here as I've had some pretty invasive searches overseas and live overseas now (I am American and lived there for over 25 years).

Many American's do not enjoy giving up an inch of presonal freedom's and resent new laws and restrictions that are placed on them. After all America is all about personal freedoms and was created / founded on the principals of personal rights / freedoms. Then there are some that will just argue about anything because they have the freedom and right to make a jack A** out of themself. I personally have no problem with the screening; however I'm a male and never have been raped or molested or such. I do see how the searches are invasive and very disturbing to some people. But we all have the right not to fly if we disagree with it. True it is not a practical answer for many people who need to travel for their work, but it is their right not to fly and avoid the screening.

The majority of TSA screeners I'VE BEEN THROUGH have been polite and friendly. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch and to all the TSA employees out there, you have bad ones in your group. Between the unproper searches and the items stolen from luggage (or mysteriously misplaced), you need to clean up in house. If you clean up in house, and severely punish the ones who violate your employment standards, then you might earn some more respect from the hard to please. If your punishment is that your fellow employees are fired from their job when they break the rules then that will not suffice for many and is not harsh enough in my own opinion either. If the penalties for violating your own rules and regulations are criminal and harsh, and the punishments are made public, then you might see a change of heart. People are getting to the point where they will not respect a person or official until the person or official earns their respect. Let alone respect, many people have a large distrust of people in power like police and now the TSA.

However, if unproper actions are happening by your fellow employees with no punishment being handed out, then you will not have the respect of many travellers IMO. I've yet to hear of a major punishment for a TSA screener who breaks the rules except being fired and a criminal case or two for stealing items out of luggage, but that is a petty crime that won't get much punishment. Make unproper actions by TSA staff a strong criminal offense that is severly punished. Jail time / house arrest / never obtaining any civil service employment again / probation. I'd even go as far as saying forget the jail time, just put them on probation and never give them a civil service job and that they would never be able to qualify for unemployment / food stamps / welfare or any other federally funded program (HUD loans, anything / everything), etc... Let us know that a TSA employee who breaks the rules will never get a job or benefits that pays him a wage out of our tax dollars again. Sure it's a strong penalty but I would think many people would support stiff penalties such as this for all people (police / politicians / etc...)who violate the trust the public is putting in them. And if you violate the trust the public is putting in you, then you don't deserve to obtain any benefits from a federally or state tax funded program.

For the sake of many, the TSA needs to develop a less invasive way to screen and check people and luggage. Yes there are trials and tests and new machines and such; however since 9/11 I think many people would have liked to see a much faster implementation of new systems. I'm sure we have the technology or if not I'm sure we could have it if people worked hard at it. So another point is that people are seeing more movements to invade them physically and little motions to increase the technology. TSA is getting closer and closer to violating areas and rights that many do not think you should have the right to. Use technology more and less hands.

For the folks that like to argue and make a scene just to do it, you sure do provide me some entertainment so thank you. While I personally do not have a problem with the current screening, I do think the TSA needs a lot of improvement and changes to be made inside it's own organization. Failure to make changes and improvements will only lead to larger problems down the line as people will not stand by and allow the TSA to invade their lives much more then it is already doing.

Just my take on the situation.

how many of the screeners stole property but were not punished beyond being fired?

i've read the initial articles that lists items being stolen, but i haven't read the long term report/aftermath.

That's one of my points I was trying to make. Very little information is being issued to the public so we know that TSA employees are being fired / punished / charged criminally for their actions. Are TSA employees being charged or are they untouchable? Is the TSA turning over evidence of illegal acts to local authorities or not? What actions are they faced with after being found guilty of improper conduct? And further, not to issue out ideas and instructions to terrorists, but it sure would be nice to know how many attempts or illegal acts the TSA has stopped. Show me something that will provide proof that these searches are doing what it is intended to do. For me, I still think the weakest link is the airport employees and not the passengers, but the passengers keep being subjected to more invasive searches.

I have been able to find little about the actual punishment of TSA employees, or what their work contracts allow for their punishment. I can find all sorts of fines and penalties the TSA is allowed to issue out to passengers, but nothing about their actions and in most cases information is with held about the employees.

Fliers can be fined for attitude, ''Attitude'' is listed among the ''aggravating factors'' that can result in a fine. Other criteria include the type of item, evidence of a passenger's intent and history of previous violations. Civil penalties now range from $250 to $10,000."
Outside the Beltway Article

If the passengers can be fined for a bad attitude, what is the penalty for a TSA employee with a bad attitude. I have not had an extremely disturbing incident with the TSA and do not object to the screening. But I can see where many people could get the wrong TSA screener on the wrong day and create a big problem. I don't hold all TSA employees as bad and part of the evil empire, but the TSA should start worrying about fixing their own in house problems more seriously. And one of those problems would be public relations.

i agree on the PR standpoint. in an information void, people inevitably fall on assumptions. i don't think they get off scott-free, since they're sworn public servents-but that's an assumption as well.

I have a simple rule. I choose to respect only those who do not treat me as a criminal. So, sorry, my respect does not extend in any way, shape, or form to TSA folks.

I totally disagree. I think there is a serious love affair with authority post 9/11, and a serious lack of passion for the personal rights and individual liberties that are bedrock American values. Too many people chirp that they're willing to give up freedoms to secure themselves. Remember Ben Franklin's dictum: people who would trade liberty for security deserve neither. This is how restrictive, intolerant regimes get going -- usually with the full support of the citizenry that's going to get muzzled, controlled and debased -- and the airport security checkpoint, where the TSA puts on a show that scares and humiliates honest citizens while failing to secure them, is a natural flash point.

My view:

Before 9/11 security at US airports was lower then in Europe. Do you remember unticketed people being able to go to the gate area ? Also, I think box cutters wouldn't have been allowed on board in Europe to begin with.

After 9/11 all of this has changed. Unfortunately most of the changes are just for show and now security lines in the US are slower and more elaborate than elsewhere, but to little or no advantage security-wise. Shoes and laptop policies are good examples of that.

I am certain they would have. I bought a Swiss Army pocket knife in the duty-free section of the airport in Rhodes (which is after security). I can't swear to it, but I believe I used to see them offered in other countries as well.

I KNOW that I used to see them, H3ll collectors hunting knives used to be sold in Duty Freee in FRA, I have one! There used to be German cutlery sold in DF as well.