Airport-security system in U.S. riddled with failures
Jul 12, 2004, 8:45 am
#31
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
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Originally Posted by TSAMGR
Training will reduce the failure rate. Common sense.
Jul 12, 2004, 9:09 am
#32
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by Richelieu
BTW, I have to questions that really interests me (even if it's theoretical) and that I would love to have an answer.
1. Are kevlar coat forbidden in a plane ? I read the list of forbidden objects on the LH and AF websites, on the TSA websites for the US, and couldn't find something relevent. If you're going for risk avoidance, it would be a great idea for FA (or even passengers) to wear one, with FAM instructed to shoot them in case they are taken hostage.
2. Are security checks less stringent in small airfields ? I have read websites about chartering a private plane for my job (I found that it's economically sensible to rent a plane in some case, as strange as it may be), and most sites told that they could serve 3,000 airports in the US, when the TSA manages only 450 or so. I suppose they list every airfield. What are the security measures there ? Conducted by TSA ? Private under TSA scrutiny ? Inexistant ? Could a company offer "hassle-free boarding" by starting regular flight linking remote airports ? (I am sure it's not economically sensible to do this since the uproar about security checks on this board is probably not representative of the general public's view, but I am interested anyway). In some case, JFK-LAS could be replaced by a flight between to small airports and a bus to transport the pax, it would be quicker than the 3-hours-long lines ?
1. Are kevlar coat forbidden in a plane ? I read the list of forbidden objects on the LH and AF websites, on the TSA websites for the US, and couldn't find something relevent. If you're going for risk avoidance, it would be a great idea for FA (or even passengers) to wear one, with FAM instructed to shoot them in case they are taken hostage.
2. Are security checks less stringent in small airfields ? I have read websites about chartering a private plane for my job (I found that it's economically sensible to rent a plane in some case, as strange as it may be), and most sites told that they could serve 3,000 airports in the US, when the TSA manages only 450 or so. I suppose they list every airfield. What are the security measures there ? Conducted by TSA ? Private under TSA scrutiny ? Inexistant ? Could a company offer "hassle-free boarding" by starting regular flight linking remote airports ? (I am sure it's not economically sensible to do this since the uproar about security checks on this board is probably not representative of the general public's view, but I am interested anyway). In some case, JFK-LAS could be replaced by a flight between to small airports and a bus to transport the pax, it would be quicker than the 3-hours-long lines ?
As for #2 - The short answer is yes. I quit flying commercially almost two years ago. My wife and I both travelled extensively for work, often to the same location, and I quit and now pilot her plane to/from work on her schedule without the shoe carnival security of a large metropolitan airport, all the while her company pays for the plane and crew, me, on a per flight hour basis.
The long answer however is that security still exists at some of these airports, and is even run by TSA. To avoid the TSA mess completely, we fly a CitationJet 501 from a regional airport, where TSA does not screen private charter that is closer to our house. We then depart for the exact airport where you would land even if flying United or American. When we get there, if TSA handles security even for outbound private charter, which is rare, I have found that 9 out of 10 times the screening is minimal at best. The key to remember here is that you will never enter the passenger terminal at the departure airport ^ , you willl instead walk into a comfortable and well appointed general aviation building where your charter crew will meet you and take you to the plane.
These companies can offer "hassle-free" flight, as with most things in life, if it's easier there is likely a catch. In this case the catch is cost.
If you can afford private charter or have the means to pilot yourself, say good-bye to TSA and laugh all the way to work. I do.
By the way, JFK-LAS is only 1948nm this is easily done in a private jet, all without the smirks and smiles of TSA.
Let the flaming begin...
Jul 12, 2004, 9:20 am
#33
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,673
Originally Posted by Fly4Food
By the way, JFK-LAS is only 1948nm this is easily done in a private jet, all without the smirks and smiles of TSA.
Let the flaming begin...
Let the flaming begin...
Jul 12, 2004, 9:37 am
#34
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
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Originally Posted by TSAMGR
Unfortunately that may change down the line.
Jul 12, 2004, 9:52 am
#35
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by TSAMGR
Unfortunately that may change down the line.
Unfortunately it may change for some, for me that is not likely. Jet is in private hanger, I pay the bill for the building and have the only known combination to the street-side door. Roll-up opens to the ramp, and the local FBO is always willing to tug it out loaded with crew and pax.
I notice, however, that you say unfortunately. What makes it unfortunate? If TSA is reasonable, and they can be I've seen it happen, then screening charters down the line may increase the overall effectiveness of TSA as an agency. For most of us, and I'm the first to admit to not having actually been subjected myself, all of this is going on as we complain to each other and those in a position of power who have no interest in listening.
For a select few that you can see on private jet ramps, Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, etc. Some of these guys have political power that can and will be listened to. Maybe annoying one of these guys is just what needs to happen in order to settle the disputes once and for all.
Until then, grin and bear it right?
Jul 12, 2004, 10:04 am
#36
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,673
Originally Posted by Fly4Food
I notice, however, that you say unfortunately. What makes it unfortunate? If TSA is reasonable, and they can be I've seen it happen, then screening charters down the line may increase the overall effectiveness of TSA as an agency.
Jul 12, 2004, 11:19 am
#38
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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I've been told that, unless you are a law-enforcement officer or in a similar line of work, wearing a bullet-proof vest is flat-out illegal in New York City (and perhaps in other jurisdictions as well). Maybe other New Yorkers can shed some additional light on these rules.
Bruce
Bruce
Jul 12, 2004, 12:38 pm
#40
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Originally Posted by bdschobel
I've been told that, unless you are a law-enforcement officer or in a similar line of work, wearing a bullet-proof vest is flat-out illegal in New York City (and perhaps in other jurisdictions as well). Maybe other New Yorkers can shed some additional light on these rules.
Bruce
Bruce
Jul 14, 2004, 12:41 am
#41
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 928
Originally Posted by Fly4Food
Can't answer #1 for you, but my assumption is that after TSA and/or the airlines get done demanding to know why you want to wear it, they will let you board.
As for #2 - The short answer is yes. I quit flying commercially almost two years ago. My wife and I both travelled extensively for work, often to the same location, and I quit and now pilot her plane to/from work on her schedule without the shoe carnival security of a large metropolitan airport, all the while her company pays for the plane and crew, me, on a per flight hour basis.
The long answer however is that security still exists at some of these airports, and is even run by TSA. To avoid the TSA mess completely, we fly a CitationJet 501 from a regional airport, where TSA does not screen private charter that is closer to our house. We then depart for the exact airport where you would land even if flying United or American. When we get there, if TSA handles security even for outbound private charter, which is rare, I have found that 9 out of 10 times the screening is minimal at best. The key to remember here is that you will never enter the passenger terminal at the departure airport ^ , you willl instead walk into a comfortable and well appointed general aviation building where your charter crew will meet you and take you to the plane.
These companies can offer "hassle-free" flight, as with most things in life, if it's easier there is likely a catch. In this case the catch is cost.
If you can afford private charter or have the means to pilot yourself, say good-bye to TSA and laugh all the way to work. I do.
By the way, JFK-LAS is only 1948nm this is easily done in a private jet, all without the smirks and smiles of TSA.
Let the flaming begin...
As for #2 - The short answer is yes. I quit flying commercially almost two years ago. My wife and I both travelled extensively for work, often to the same location, and I quit and now pilot her plane to/from work on her schedule without the shoe carnival security of a large metropolitan airport, all the while her company pays for the plane and crew, me, on a per flight hour basis.
The long answer however is that security still exists at some of these airports, and is even run by TSA. To avoid the TSA mess completely, we fly a CitationJet 501 from a regional airport, where TSA does not screen private charter that is closer to our house. We then depart for the exact airport where you would land even if flying United or American. When we get there, if TSA handles security even for outbound private charter, which is rare, I have found that 9 out of 10 times the screening is minimal at best. The key to remember here is that you will never enter the passenger terminal at the departure airport ^ , you willl instead walk into a comfortable and well appointed general aviation building where your charter crew will meet you and take you to the plane.
These companies can offer "hassle-free" flight, as with most things in life, if it's easier there is likely a catch. In this case the catch is cost.
If you can afford private charter or have the means to pilot yourself, say good-bye to TSA and laugh all the way to work. I do.
By the way, JFK-LAS is only 1948nm this is easily done in a private jet, all without the smirks and smiles of TSA.
Let the flaming begin...
Give out that phone number.
Jul 14, 2004, 6:30 am
#42
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,673
Originally Posted by bdschobel
I've been told that, unless you are a law-enforcement officer or in a similar line of work, wearing a bullet-proof vest is flat-out illegal in New York City (and perhaps in other jurisdictions as well). Maybe other New Yorkers can shed some additional light on these rules.
Bruce
Bruce