Seems a new TSA mandate is in effect on-board aircraft.

#1) Per the TSA, there is to be no standing and/or congregating with fellow passengers (or your seatmate, or family) on-board aircraft while in flight -- this also includes the area around the lavs and also appears to prohibit pax from lining up to use the facilities.

#2) Per the TSA, passengers MUST use the lav in the cabin they are seated in. This rule has more or less been in place to protect FC/BC lavs from being used by economy pax, but this is now TSA mandated for "security" reasons.

If you're on a long-haul flight and would like to get up, walk around, and perhaps stand to chat and/or have a drink with your seatmate or a fellow passenger, it is now prohibited in the name of "safety".

Anyone feeling safer yet?

This is ridicilous and will especially impact pax on long-haul flights. DVT anyone?

The above was in effect, announced as a "new" TSA mandate, and enforced on NW 310 on 12/30 from SDF-DTW, NW 32 DTW-LGW on 12/30, and again on 01/04 on NW 31 LGW-DTW. This appears to cover both short-haul domestic as well as longer-haul Intl flights.

On 12/27 I made several flights including SDF-DTW, DTW-ORD, & ORD-SDF and this mandate was not in effect. As such, this must of been mandated sometime between 12/27 and the 30th.

What's next? in-seat catheters and being handcuffed to the seat?

GMAFB -- it's time to dismantle the TSA, this BS is just going way too far.

Best,

SDF_Traveler

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

Hello SDF,

Thank you for this information. I was really surprised to read this. I had expected something like that to happen, but not so soon.

I went to the TSA homepage but could not find anything related to your report.
Is there a list of dos and donts somewhere?

We are, it seems, close to the 1930's, with the Nazi regime if the TSA continues on this path, but I have the feeling reading many postings on FT that the majority of people seem to approve all these methods...
Strange, don't you think?

SDF,

I've personally heard of none of these new prodecures announced by TSA, and my screening manager does love to tell us a lot of stuff.

You might ask for the prodecures on paper next time and see if thats true or not.

sounds to me like a northwest airlines rule not a TSA I have heard of no rule like this in effect

Announced on my AA flights from ORD to YUL and back this weekend. It was to the effect that this is a new procedure implemented on all international flights as of late (read: Air France/BA/whatever)brought to you by your friendly folks from Homeland Security.

It was specifically announced this was a new TSA mandate by the flight crews on the respective flights.

As I took several flights on 12/27 and this rule was not in place then (but was in place on 12/30), it must of been mandated within that 2-3 day period.

With all due respect, tuner, I sincerely doubt this is a Northwest airlines rule (otherwise the announcement would not of specifically referred to the TSA; on NW 31, the announcement was made by the pilot in command from the flight deck prior to pushback).

Additionally, due to "increased security" on LGW-DTW on Sunday, it was necessary to display our passports to US Customs & Immigrations officers in the Jetway as a condition of getting off the aircraft.

Furthermore, all passengers on NW 31 on 01/04 were required to endure a FULL SECONDARY US CUSTOMS SEARCH.

Luckily, I received my checked suitcase promptly as a World Business Class passenger and was then allowed to jump to the front of the queue. I made it through the full secondary search promptly & without much hassle -- but that didn't seem to be the case with others.

Unfortunately, my connecting flight was cancelled because of a mechanical problem; as such, later that evening (as I was en-route to my hotel) I spoke with other passengers on NW 31 and it apparently took in excess of 2 1/2 hours for them to get through the manditory US customs secondary. The passengers I spoke with had all missed their connecting flights because of this.

Anyone feeling safer yet?

Best,

SDF_Traveler

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

I've had it announced on US domestic flights as well. In fact, SDF-DTW on 12/30 was the first flight where I had heard such an announcement.

Great folks we have running 'The Homeland', eh?

Best,

SDF_Traveler

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

I haven't flown since mid-Dec, so no 1st-hand experience here, but I've found that some cockpit crews, cabin crews, and even GAs each have their own weird policies for various things that they like to blame on "security" or "the TSA." They're often exaggerated or over-enforced versions of actual policies, some of which even make a smidgen of sense. I've heard everything from restroom use to carry-on rules to saftey briefings to boarding/de-boarding procedures blamed on "security."

A while (but post 9/11) ago on a UA transatlantic 777, a bunch of us were stretching and doing pseudo-aerobics in the huge rear galley. We joked to one of the FAs about starting an excercise "class" back there, and she jokingly told us she could have us sent back to our seats for "congregating."

I chatted with her for a few minutes, and apparently it's an actual rule of some sort. And it makes reasonable sense for FAs to be able to break up little meetings as long as it is not applied to clearly harmless activity. But a mix of fear-induced paranoia and occasional power-hungry crews can make life miserable for many passengers.

If I was lectured by cabin crews for lining up for a non-cockpit restroom in my cabin or "congregating" while stretching my legs on a long-haul (and not related to seatbelt sign or service carts), I'd file a complaint with the airline.

Anybody else had problems with this over the past few weeks? I did a quick scan on the NW and AA forums and didn't see anything (I normally follow only UA). If you've got a story, post it here. I'll post my own when I get back in the air at the end of next week.

[This message has been edited by studentff (edited Jan 05, 2004).]

Actually there is another report of the same in the NW forum in regards to an AMS-DTW flight. Same announcement/mandate per the message I read.

I'll be going overseas again soon -- two more times this month; will have to see what that brings.

FWIW, the announcement was not made this morning on DTW-SDF that I recall, but the flight was with Mesaba on a Saab 340 turbo-prop. Kind of hard to get up and congregate on one of those!

Best,

SDF_Traveler

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

AA has been making this announcement and enforcing this policy since soon after 9/11. Just because a crew publically blames it on TSA does not mean that it is, in fact, a TSA mandate.

Frankly of all the TSA rules, this one, if actually from TSA, seems the least "Gestapo" of any of the one we've discussed in this forum. Too many people milling around the cabin makes it harder for the cabin crew to keep tabs on what is going on. It makes sense to me to limit people from doing this.

Also, I highly doubt TSA is concerned with economy passengers using premium cabin lavs.

My sources confirm that the two Security Directives issued on December 21 to airlines by the TSA do in fact make AA's post-September 11 Paranoia the law of the land for all US airlines. SDF_Traveler's experience this past week appear to reflect the Terrorism Success Administration's new rules.

Security Directives are not publicly disclosed - they will certainly not appear on the TSA website.

Was the BS I encountered officially a TSA directive as of 12/21? Just curious, as I made several flights on 12/27 and did not experience this new mandate.

However -- A few days later on 12/30 and forward, I've had it on every flight, domestic & Intl, with the exception of a Mesaba Airlines (NW Airlink) flight, which I took yesterday. However, with a Saab 340, it's somewhat difficult to congregate, let alone goto a different cabin

I don't mind the "use the lav in the cabin you are seated in rule" so much, as that has always been the case to protect premium passenger cabins and the premium product.

What really bothers me is that there is to be no standing or congregating, which includes lining up to use the lav's. I take a lot of long-haul flights (6 hrs ++) and this is just bloody ridicilous. If you're on a short flight (under 4-5 hours), it's not so bad -- but once you start passing the 4-5 hour mark, let alone the 7-8 hour+ mark on flights, this is completely unreasonable.

I have many upcoming flights in the 6-9 hr category in addition to a few flights in the 12+ hr category.

On long-haul flights & ultra-long-haul, it's common to queue up to use the lavs (especially in economy) -- additionally, for health reasons, it's good that everyone gets up at some point and walks around, stetches, etc.

Perhaps we should require Loy, Ridge, and company, to make regular ultra-long-haul flights (in economy) just to see how much they enjoy their own mandates. While they're at it, perhaps they can open up their eyes & explore the world outside the USA. Perhaps they might learn something about aviation security (and how it is conducted in other western nations, where terrorism has existed for many years -- professionally and treating passengers with respect).

Flying around Europe on internal European flights is not only a breeze, but a pleasure compared to the BS we now deal with here....

SDF_Traveler

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

Apparently the feds are even stupider than I thought. Various international airlines (Qantas in this case) are reporting that the feds are telling them that not lining up for any restrooms is a new rule.

http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2380916

This really is one step away from chaining pax to their seats during the flight.

For the folks that have been on such flights where the rule was announced, was it strictly enforced by the FAs? (i.e, two people standing near an exit/lav on a widebody stretching their legs are told to return to their seats)

My first graders are permitted to que for the restroom at school. I refuse to be treated with less respect than my six year olds are afforded at a public elementary school.

Hi,

No comments were made on my Virgin Atlantic Flights LHR-SFO-LHR (VS 19/20) on 1st Jan & 6th Jan.

Regards

TBS