Nayef

We could use the perspectives of US-AU/NZ dual citizens as AU and NZ have had ETA programs for a while without major incident as far as I know whether it's departing the US or not.

If I may add a couple of anecdotal experiences, many of my friends are US-born Saudis and many have different spellings on their names in both passports. They've all been coming and going using both passports for years and years regardless of how the name on their ticket is spelled and they don't typically purchase two one-way tickets. They always get regular round-trip tickets and even when going through Saudi entry or exit immigration, or entering the US, the difference in spelling between the boarding pass and passport has never been an issue whatsoever. I don't know how it works on the airline side in this case, but given the experiences I've accumulated, it seems that airlines have a known mechanism to not add a dual citizen's info to APIS once they show a US passport regardless of the name or the spelling. I even know people who literally have different names altogether in both passports and this still hasn't been an issue when traveling to and from the US.

Last Christmas, I traveled using both my Saudi and US passports for the first time ever, and of course Saudi passports require a visa for the US. My name is exactly the same in both passports (Saudi doesn't officially allow dual citizenship if naturalized unless a person is privileged enough to get approval for it from the ministry of interior, or else it's perfectly legal if they're born dual citizens whether it's through a non-Saudi mother or in a place that grants birthright citizenship, though they don't scrutinize things if someone is naturalized unless something else pops up and they don't check for visas or anything when leaving Saudi, but just in case I kept my name as is in both passports to make things easier).

When I checked into my flight to BAH with a layover in LHR (flying to BAH is the same as flying into or out of any Saudi or GCC airport), at DEN I only showed the airline my Saudi passport, and I used my Saudi passport at TSA. Used it all the way until BAH. When I came back, I checked in with the airlines using my US passport and then went through Bahraini exit immigration with my Saudi passport, after that used my US passport at LHR and then all the way to DEN. There was no issue at all with record-keeping just because I never used my US passport anywhere when I flew DEN-LHR-BAH, and I'm a member of NEXUS so I was able to use the GE kiosk just fine, and this is with having a passport that outright requires a visa, not even some sort of ETA.

I don't imagine this will be an issue at all for US-EU dual nationals, just like it hasn't been for US-AU/NZ citizens, and there might be some growing pains to start, perhaps more so for those who have EU residence permits, but I don't think a huge alarm needs to be sounded over it, even if there are some issues at the beginning. One of the abandoned plans was to do a six-month trial run for ETIAS in 2022 (then it was slated in 2023) so it wouldn't surprised me if they still opt for that whenever the hell it's implemented. It'll be prudent to also keep an eye on the UK ETA and any issues arising from that (if any) as it seems like it'll begin before ETIAS, and I'm sure it'll be set up in a way that accommodates US-UK dual citizens or US/ETA citizens with ILR.

seawolf

Additional evidence that 22 CFR 53.2 (unlawful for US citizen to enter/exit US without a valid US passport) is effecitvely neutered.

Note the "soft" word "expectation" being used instead of stronger language such as unlawful or must. And they only "expect" you to use US passport returnnig to US.

ESTA FAQ
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/faq?lang=en...application%3F

A number of reddit post indicating ESTA still gets approved despite listing US passport as additional citizenship.

Davvidd

It looks like the US government is as confused as the rest of us. The State Department states., U.S. nationals, including U.S. dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. U.S. dual nationals may also be required by the country of their foreign nationality to use that country’s passport to enter and leave that country.

kyanar

That's actually a terrible example, as AU/NZ both have rules requiring entry on their respective passports, and not permitting the grant of an ETA (or NZeTA) to citizens.

As a dual citizen of AU and NZ, cross country travel is a gigantic pain - have to have passports of both countries, and show both passports at both ends, because neither country can grant a visa to a citizen, but both countries must still validate right of entry. Sometimes you can wing it, sometimes it all falls apart.


It may very well be an issue. Not necessarily an insurmountable one but still.

Nayef

I meant US citizens who are dual citizens of either Australia or New Zealand, not duals of AU/NZ.

seawolf

Why would this be an issue?

Heading to US check in with US passport . Heading to EU check in with EU passport.

I believe this has been covered several times already.

kyanar

Your anecdotal scenarios included precisely zero examples meeting that situation. The reality is, without pre-planning, dealing with either country's entry requirements can be an exercise in frustration unless you prepare. The prevalence of real-time entry eligibility checking at the gate-bridge has moved the importance of understanding what you need to do.

If you're traveling to Australia for example, your eligibility is determined when your passport is scanned at boarding. You scan a US passport on departure from SFO for example when you have AU citizenship, it will flag "DO NOT BOARD" because the Department of Home Affairs systems will say that individual has no ETA, and if that individual tried to apply for one, it would be refused (due to being ineligible as a citizen) while if you scanned another passport, the I-94 records will be way out of whack and cause issues for re-entry, since the US uses APIS as a primary source of exit data.

Some countries (cough, the US) use check-in/APIS data in lieu of exit immigration. Your departure is as important as your arrival. There's a reason that ICAO has a working group sorting this. Because right now it's a mess that unfairly stings travellers. Especially dual-citizen ones.

seawolf

How does this actually translate to be a problem for passenger?

That is the part that people keep bringing up here as a concern but have not quite really articulated what is the actual problem.

Nayef

As far as experiences I've known in person and ones I've read online even, I've never seen any problems entering the US for anyone who's a dual citizen even if they left the US without presenting their US passport at any point (like my own experience mere months ago) but apparently this doesn't compute for a great many people.
There's one Reddit thread where I've bickered with someone who keeps advocating for using ESTA on one's EU passport to get to the US if someone can't use their US passport. And when I told him it's a terrible idea because this could subject them to scrutiny at the US border and be referred to secondary and kept there for hours, they insisted I put forth citations, which I couldn't because I don't recall the exact places I've read about the experiences. That person declared themselves "right" because of this . They also linked to several Reddit threads that alarmed me because almost everyone in those threads were encouraging taking this step with only one person warning against it but not giving sufficient details. I told the person to try doing that and report back to us.
So there's an alarming streak of people being paranoid about something that needs no paranoia AND a refusal to take common sense advice and common experiences as valid.
I've no clue why there's such a pushback. The airlines transmit APIS info to the US that the dual citizen is a US citizen even if the name on their boarding pass is different and this has been the experience for many people over and over without failure. It's as simple as that and it will be the same with ETIAS and ETA (UK).

yubikey pressoooor

The difference between carrying one or two passports is completely negligible, and I don't think the kiosks take national ID cards. I will try that on a human agent when I go to PPT next week... although that isn't Schengen, technically.

CKDGM

Not scanning a US passport when departing the US is going to do what? Mark the US citizen as having overstayed in the US, a country they have a legal right to reside in? There won't be an I-94 missing a departure record, since citizens don't need I-94s. Their return to the US will be perfectly routine.

I could see this being a potential problem for a Canadian/Australian dual citizen routing through the US on the way to AU...but there are ways to handle that situation.

Nayef

When do these referenced passport scans happen? If during boarding, as far as all my travels they don’t scan passports at the gate. They just check passports and scan boarding passes and maybe ask a couple of questions. I thought only airlines and exit immigration check and/or scan passports.

I’m certain airlines do communicate second passports/citizenships for these purposes as people have been traveling this way for years and I know a couple of US-Aussie dual citizens who travel this way without a hitch. I don’t see why this would be different for US-EU citizens when ETIAS is implemented (barring any mishaps at the start of it).

I still don’t get what the hoopla is all about.

As for the I-94, I don’t know why this would be an issue. I-94s aren’t even paper anymore so I’m not sure what the info in the link is supposed to help with.

And in that routing a Canadian-Australian can just get ESTA for their Aussie passport. Or else they show originating airline in Canada both passport to show they don’t need ESTA or the ETA and communicate both things to US and AU for APIS. There could be some complications but the other US-EU/AU passport situations are much easier to deal with.

Nayef

We’re encroaching on OT territory here, but when does this hypothetical scan happen? Passports aren’t scanned at the gate like I mentioned above. At that point passengers are mostly cleared to board. If you check in with an airline and you give them a US passport you can still show your AU passport (or just show your AU passport if both passports have
the same name/spelling). Even if the name is different, there must be some mechanism to communicate that to AU for APIS or else many people would’ve run into issues. The scenario you present is very unlikely to result in a do not board situation.

Ari

The US has already solved this issue internally; it is no longer a problem. Feel free to research the issue rather than speculate.

PWMTrav

Have you actually run into these issues or are you speculating? I've had no such issue going to/from Europe as a dual US/EU national, entering both the US and Italy with their respective passports (as required). And how does the I-94 factor in if you're a US citizen?