TSA Lying or Misleading Pax?
#1
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SEA or BGR, Lower Earth Orbit
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 17,220
TSA Lying or Misleading Pax?
Here's what I've seen and experienced in the past week.
At MKE on Tuesday morning I was pointed to the NOS, I opted out for personal reasons. After taking far too long and after my backpack got pushed off the belt and onto the floor I was finally given my Freedom Pat (TM). The agent asked why I was opting out. I explained that the risk of exposure to known radiation was too great of a risk, in an analogy that I'm sure that even he'd understand. "When I go to the dentist, I get a lead apron. Here I get a 'Raise your arms and stay still' I'll pass."
I was dumbfounded by his response: "They told us it was just sound waves. And completely harmless."
Not wanting to argue, and figuring that there might be an uninformed agent out there I didn't think much of this. Just simply said "The two blue boxes are the millimetre wave systems, that is x-ray and produces radiation." And left it at that.
Yes, MKE has the L3 machines.
Today I left RDU, and managed to escape the NOS and went thru the metal detector without a Freedom Pat (TM). The sign I saw was simply dumbfounding. It was explaining that the machine uses sound waves to view an image of your body.
RDU also has the L3 machines.
This is a clear lie and attempt to mislead the general passengers into lulling them into a calm state so that they are more likely to go through the NOS machines.
I cannot believe, and find it simply inexcusable, that the wrong sign was placed in several spots in the checkpoint area.
So, what should be done next?
Sit back until my next Freedom Pat (TM)?
At MKE on Tuesday morning I was pointed to the NOS, I opted out for personal reasons. After taking far too long and after my backpack got pushed off the belt and onto the floor I was finally given my Freedom Pat (TM). The agent asked why I was opting out. I explained that the risk of exposure to known radiation was too great of a risk, in an analogy that I'm sure that even he'd understand. "When I go to the dentist, I get a lead apron. Here I get a 'Raise your arms and stay still' I'll pass."
I was dumbfounded by his response: "They told us it was just sound waves. And completely harmless."
Not wanting to argue, and figuring that there might be an uninformed agent out there I didn't think much of this. Just simply said "The two blue boxes are the millimetre wave systems, that is x-ray and produces radiation." And left it at that.
Yes, MKE has the L3 machines.
Today I left RDU, and managed to escape the NOS and went thru the metal detector without a Freedom Pat (TM). The sign I saw was simply dumbfounding. It was explaining that the machine uses sound waves to view an image of your body.
RDU also has the L3 machines.
This is a clear lie and attempt to mislead the general passengers into lulling them into a calm state so that they are more likely to go through the NOS machines.
I cannot believe, and find it simply inexcusable, that the wrong sign was placed in several spots in the checkpoint area.
So, what should be done next?
Sit back until my next Freedom Pat (TM)?
#3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SJC
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 1,628
Just simply said "The two blue boxes are the millimetre wave systems, that is x-ray and produces radiation."
#5
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Join Date: May 2006
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I stand corrected. I assumed, incorrectly based upon so much different information, that the L3 machines were the X-Rays.
I'm still going to opt out.
I'm still going to opt out.
#6
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 118
You are not the first person to report being told this, so it's unlikely it's one or two misinformed TSOs. It's a pattern, and I would be quite interested in what Ron, Bart, or SATTSO have to say, though I'm sure they wouldn't be able to admit if TSA told them to say this, because it would be SSI.
#8
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SJC
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 1,628
The L-3 MMW systems have sometimes been described as using "radio waves," which can be accurate depending on what definition you use for the various named ranges of the electromagnetic spectrum. I think that many people may be confused by this term, as radio waves are actually electromagnetic radiation, not sound waves.
One person on FT even reported being told "these are sound waves, just like an ultrasound". That goes way beyond confusing two different terminologies. Either the TSO was told a MMW is "just like an ultrasound" or they made their own interpretation, which is just as misleading.
#9
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: AA, WN RR
Posts: 3,122
All true, but several people have reported TSOs telling them these are "sound" waves. I find it difficult to believe that several independent, and ill-informed, people would all manage to translate "radio" into "sound" and impart the same incorrect information.
One person on FT even reported being told "these are sound waves, just like an ultrasound". That goes way beyond confusing two different terminologies. Either the TSO was told a MMW is "just like an ultrasound" or they made their own interpretation, which is just as misleading.
One person on FT even reported being told "these are sound waves, just like an ultrasound". That goes way beyond confusing two different terminologies. Either the TSO was told a MMW is "just like an ultrasound" or they made their own interpretation, which is just as misleading.
This parroting of the "sound waves" line is similar to TSOs at multiple airports telling me that passengers do not have First Amendment rights at checkpoints. Most TSOs do not seem to be intelligent enough to know about First Amendment rights to formulate that line on their own. Therefore, the inescapable conclusion is that in training, TSOs are told that passengers do not have First Amendment rights at checkpoints.
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,285
One of the better examples of TSA not being up front and honest is not saying a passenger has a choice when being herded towards the Strip Search Machine. I suggest asking the TSA screener what options are available before going the path you choose. If they lie and say there is no option then file a complaint naming the liar.
#11
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: North of DFW
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, TSA Disparager Gold, going for Platnium
Posts: 1,535
I have heard this line of bravo sierra a few times and every time i have called them out on it and there handlers are liars and brainwashing them. from the responses you think i just shot there puppy.
the MMW arent safe either as DNA damage (from unzipping) from scans according to a few reports, but since the manufactures wont allow independent 3rd part testing that says alot and neither are say.
#13
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,728
The problem seems to be endemic. We even see dolts like TSA employee Sabrina Birge being dumb enough to believe it's "just like an ultrasound" and being quoted by the newspapers repeating that drivel.
#14
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AS, BA, AA
Posts: 3,670
Likewise, if you put your head in a microwave oven and cooked it for a few minutes, there would be health effects. But as the microwaves are used in the airports? I wouldn't argue with someone who asserted that "MMW is no more dangerous than a sonogram". I do think it is lying to say MMW "uses sound waves" or is "the same as a sonogram". If your employees are not intelligent enough to make that distinction, it is unethical to provide them with information they are likely to misconstrue and use to mislead passengers.
The DNA unzipping you are referring to occurs when the microwaves produce enough heat (like 95 degrees C) to denature the DNA. You would be screaming in pain long before your DNA unzipped. And even then, the unzipping will completely reverse as soon as it cooled down. The process is analogous to melting and re-freezing an ice cube. The water doesn't get 'damaged', and neither does the DNA.
I would say that there is no scientific question whether the MMW systems, especially given their dose/wattage, could cause health effects in humans. If you have ever used a cell phone or a microwave oven, you have placed yourself in far more 'danger' than the MMW systems the TSA uses. In all likelihood, any studies on the MMW systems would show that they are actually safer than the WTMDs, which can interfere with pacemakers, etc.
I still won't go through the MMV systems. The political reasons are much more significant that the medical ones, IMO.