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Explosive Sniffing Dogs?

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Old Apr 11, 2011 | 5:33 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by trooper
I bet he didn't see a CAT scan machine or any of the other (big) wonders of modern medicine in the field hospitals over there either... Where is the rant about "only the best for our soldiers?" It would make as much sense....
And I'll bet he did. British forces have them, and they are part of the TO&E of Combat Support Hospitals and Evac Hospitals of U.S. forces.
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Old Apr 11, 2011 | 6:07 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by FriendlySkies
They aren't provided by Michael Chertoff
The world might be a better place if he was kept real busy having puppies, though. Not that I condone puppy mills....
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Old Apr 11, 2011 | 6:44 am
  #18  
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Excuse me but if the dogs aren't useful, why is the TSA promoting the training program all over television:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4631110/e...-sniffing-dogs

and why is there this thread at PV:

http://blog.tsa.gov/2011/04/tsa-welc...0th-puppy.html

It ticks me off no end, however, that TSA persists in its fear-mongering by naming these dogs after those who died on 9/11.
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Old Apr 11, 2011 | 6:46 am
  #19  
 
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Explosive Sniffing Dogs?

It's what you get when you put too much meat into their diet - just don't go near their back ends with a naked flame
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Old Apr 11, 2011 | 6:54 am
  #20  
 
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For better or worse, the TSA is indeed developing such dogs:

http://www.tsa.gov/lawenforcement/pr...y_program.shtm
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Old Apr 11, 2011 | 7:12 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by average_passenger
Can someone please explain to me why we can't use dogs to sniff for explosives at the airports?
1) The current TSA employees don't want smarter creatures replacing them.
2) The dogs won't vote to unionize.
3) Michael Chertoff doesn't make any money on dogs, so Napolitano and Pistole can't get any kickbacks for using them.
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Old Apr 11, 2011 | 10:02 pm
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Caradoc
1) The current TSA employees don't want smarter creatures replacing them.
2) The dogs won't vote to unionize.
3) Michael Chertoff doesn't make any money on dogs, so Napolitano and Pistole can't get any kickbacks for using them.
I don't personally know any TSO's and can't comment on their IQ levels but I've met some really smart dogs!
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Old Apr 21, 2011 | 11:55 am
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by nachtnebel
The argument these clowns put forth is that dogs have a short attention span, and are good for a half hour at a time.

Some of us might think this could be scaled by adding more dogs and handlers. The TSA would rather spend resources on visual strip searches and hand searching our groins, butts, and breasts.

They fall back on the argument that they have to process 2 million pax a day, and this is how they must do it, the only way they can do it. So, the problem is framed as, "how do we process 2 million inanimate things (passengers) a day" rather than, how can we best screen large numbers of passengers in ways that (1) do not violate Constitutional guarantees, and (2) do not humiliate and embarrass these human beings.

They have framed the problem incorrectly, and therefore they have an incorrect solution.
Seems a fair assertion that a dog has a limited attention span of about 20-30mins of constant working. They also need time out to be rewarded. It is also true that they are trained by commodity and whilst some are multi-scented they would be of little use for electronic / electrical component parts or offensive weapons such as knives. I suppose there are a large number of chemicals that could be used in a device and it stands to reason that the dog is not going to be able to cover all the potential threats by scent. Can't see it working on an industrial scale as a primary system. Seems to me that they would be of more use as a focused resource used in a targeted way and supplementing the primary regime, as imperfect as it may be.
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Old Apr 21, 2011 | 12:29 pm
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by Custardthecat
It is also true that they are trained by commodity and whilst some are multi-scented they would be of little use for electronic / electrical component parts or offensive weapons such as knives. I suppose there are a large number of chemicals that could be used in a device and it stands to reason that the dog is not going to be able to cover all the potential threats by scent.
Dogs that are trained to sniff for explosives do not find drugs or large amounts of money.
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Old Apr 21, 2011 | 12:57 pm
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by mozgytog
Dogs that are trained to sniff for explosives do not find drugs or large amounts of money.
They would not find hand lotion, hair conditioner, fertilizer, and other such substances that falsly alarm the ETD, would they?
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Old Apr 21, 2011 | 1:05 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by nachtnebel

Some of us might think this could be scaled by adding more dogs and handlers. The TSA would rather spend resources on visual strip searches and hand searching our groins, butts, and breasts.
I would rather have dogs sniffing my butt and crotch than being felt up by some dude i don't know.
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Old Apr 21, 2011 | 1:11 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by Custardthecat
Seems a fair assertion that a dog has a limited attention span of about 20-30mins of constant working. They also need time out to be rewarded. It is also true that they are trained by commodity and whilst some are multi-scented they would be of little use for electronic / electrical component parts or offensive weapons such as knives. I suppose there are a large number of chemicals that could be used in a device and it stands to reason that the dog is not going to be able to cover all the potential threats by scent. Can't see it working on an industrial scale as a primary system. Seems to me that they would be of more use as a focused resource used in a targeted way and supplementing the primary regime, as imperfect as it may be.
Actually, being very focused on explosives only, the dogs would be quite effective around large crowds. I once witnessed a dog point out one guy with a box of ammunition (but no gun) among hundreds of people. Which is why organizations like the military, the Secret Service, and police bomb squads use dogs - but I guess by TSA standards any of those would be an incompetent organization.

Ideally one would not want large lines of people in an exposed environment like that awaiting security screening...and the WBI machines have lengthened lines due to their being sooooo slow. WTMD is incredibly effective at detecting metal, and metal is far and away the most effective material for constructing a reliable gun. Twenty years ago, when the big concern was the potential for someone with a ceramic knife to hijack an airplane, hold everyone hostage and demand something in return, WBI might have been useful; but with passengers that assume anybody taking over the plane will kill them, very secure cockpit doors, and heat wielding pilots, ceramic knives are of ABSOLUTE ZERO concern to me now.

Effective airport security should be much simpler than it currently is. Have dog handlers walking around in the areas outside security, letting the dogs work, and switching off periodically. Use WTMD to scan passengers, and bring back the hand held wands (also very effective - why did they go away?) for use when alarming. Pat downs should be based on standard law enforcement practice, perhaps even done by LEOs, only when wanding does not reveal issues. If the underwear bomber was carrying 80g of explosives, the dogs probably would have detected it as soon as he entered the terminal.
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Old Apr 21, 2011 | 1:13 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Custardthecat
It is also true that they are trained by commodity and whilst some are multi-scented they would be of little use for electronic / electrical component parts or offensive weapons such as knives.
Are they proposing getting rid of WTMDs as well?
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Old Apr 21, 2011 | 1:23 pm
  #29  
 
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this so reminds me of Bush's search for WMD in Iraq...

how many boobs and crotches will they have to feel before they give up looking for explosives in our underwear?
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Old Apr 21, 2011 | 1:25 pm
  #30  
 
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are erect nipples in a cold airport and/or a large male organ now probable cause for "pat-down/feel-up" searches, because they "might" be explosive devices?
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