DeafBlonde

I have hearing aids, too. No need to go to those lengths to ignore them...just say that your batteries just went dead, and that you can't hear a thing until you get to a store to buy new batteries. That was my plan if I had been barked at on my last few flights. I didn't want to part with my hearing aids because those little things are EXPENSIVE! Luckily, I didn't encounter barkers, and I escaped the scope'n'grope, too! ^

FaustsAccountant

What's the status on the $10K fine for refusing the pat down and attempting to leave the screening area?

I don't know if it would actually stick in court, but it seems they were determined to get us both ways. And even if it doesn't stick in court, that's some time and money spent swimming about in the legal system.

Cathay Boy

I never had an issue with TSOs before they became Federal Employees (thanks President Bush, that's one legacy you wished you've not done.) However, like most here it all went down hill real fast since they've federalized. Ironically, on one trip with my colleague I was really chatting it up with one TSA agent and he was very friendly. Yet one guy was barking from the other end: "Make sure you clear out everything in your pockets before you walk through the detector." No problem I thought to myself, and I walked through. My colleague is behind me but that "tough guy" barked at him (yes, barked, so loud it's incredible), "Cleared everything out of your pocket and walk through the detector again!" My colleague, someone in 20s, clearly was intimidated and went into puzzle mode as he's sure he cleared out everything in his pant pockets. Finally he summons the courage to say: "nothing's in my pockets". So Bob Barker went up to his face, finger pointing at his shirt pocket with his passport and boarding pass and said, "What the f*** do you called these?"

Being sick and appalled with his tone, language, and absurdity, I walked up to him and said: "Those are just papers, not metals." Bob Barker spinned his head, stared at me dead-on with a "I'm going to tear your head off look", but later waved his arm: "Go, just go."

I feel much safer in my journey knowing I have this kind of guard dog protecting air security... NOT!

FaustsAccountant

I guess TSA agents are that kind of special.
If I drop the f-bomb or the s-word on the job or representing myself or my company, I'd probably not be employed.

exbayern

I cannot find the quote now but I believe that just in the last few days one of the TSOs here indicated that such a fine doesn't exist. Other than the SAN case, has it ever come up?

FaustsAccountant

Hence I'm asking, because 1. it only takes one case to stick to set the precedence. And 2. As we've seen many times before, TSA agents don't agree with one another, and other times don't agree with themselves on different days and different passengers.

chollie

Yes, I noticed that quote. More data from the "Cornell Law Department', I think.

Someplace else on this forum, someone found and pasted a list of TSA administrative fines. There was no actual $11k fine. I believe the conclusion was that the $11k figure was actually a combination of two or three other 'offenses' added together.

http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/Sancti..._7-15-2004.pdf

As someone pointed out at the time, they were threatening Tyner with a bigger fine that he would have gotten for showing up at the checkpoint with a weapon (even if 'artfully concealed').

chollie

Not just individual TSOs.

The TSA clown in SAN called a press conference to announce that he was going to go after Tyner.

Shortly after, Pistole was asked about it, and he said it wasn't going to happen.

Um, hello? Who's running the show, anyway? Is anyone in charge? Does anyone know/care what is going on?

WillCAD

I don't really know what the status of the fines is. I don't really care, either.

I have always equated this "once you start you CAN'T stop!" crap with the old "she was asking for it" rape defense - rapists used to claim that it wasn't rape if the woman participated in kissing and petting willingly, then said "stop" but the guy forced intercourse. That load of BS has been struck down by courts time and again, but it seems to have come back in force when the government is the one doing the molesting.

If I were to refuse a pat-down and later be assessed a fine, I would fight the fine in court. It would probably cost a lot more than $11,000 to challenge the fine, but I would do so; there must be some lawyers out there who would be willing to represent me pro bono in such a case.

I certainly hope it never happens. It would turn my life upside down for a year or more. But as I said before, there has to be a line somewhere. There has to be a point where I say NO, and stand my ground. All of the fancy words, rhetoric, and bluster on the net are meaningless if I am not willing to back them up with actions to defend my Constitutional rights.

Here is a pretty good ABC News article about the fines. And as a bonus, it has quotes from a former director of security for El Al calling the fine "ridiculous" and saying that the NoS is not worth the money spent on them, as well as saying that the Israeli approach COULD be scaled up for US airlines:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/walki...ry?id=12215171

All of that is why I say that being selected for a pat-down is my greatest fear when I fly. I'm scared to death, not only of the possibility of going through this nightmare, but of the possibility that I, myself, will not have the courage to follow through on my convictions when confronted by angry TSOs threatening fines and incarceration. It's easy to be brave and blustery here at my computer, but the real world is a far different place.

Boggie Dog

AT TSA? No one!

exbayern

You're right, it is, and as we see 'anything can happen'. There are so many variables now at the checkpoint.

The best advice I can offer is that if you do find yourself in the midst of a confrontation to try and remain calm and quiet, and speak in measured tones. Not everyone believes that is the way to behave with TSA, but I find it is very useful in difusing many situations. Of course, there is no guarantee that doing just that will not enrage a TSO, as happened to me a few weeks ago.

TheGolfWidow

I would add....

Make every attempt, within your personal limits in the moment and within the context of what is legal in your location, make an audio and/or video record your experience. Every time. The value of such a recording might be untold.

Superguy

Just wanted to report on my I just had at SLC T1. Polar opposite of BWI. Write the shirt as usual. Screeners were nice. Made typical comments but were very polite about it. Two lines running today, one with NoS and one WTMD. One screener made a joke about me wanting to go to line 1 ebert the NoS was. We laughed and I self selected the WTMD line. No secondary, no hassles.

While no TSA experience is particularly pleasant a it's still TSA, I have yet to have a bad experience at T1. They're consistently polite IME and that can at least make the situation bearable. Now why can't more screeners be polite? SLC has shown it can be done.

WillCAD

Hehe... I can tell you were posting from an iPhone. Darn auto-correct!

Superguy

Close - a Droid Captivate. Same problems though.

I commented about seeing friends on FB, but it came up as "sewing" instead. Got quite a few interesting comments on that one.