TSA bag inspections / search AFTER travel (Savannah train incident) [merged thread]
#61
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"Why would you want people kept in the dark about their rights, unless you are one of those who depend on their ignorance?
#62
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Sent the link with a quick message to ask the TSA about this in March to Chaffetz's Twitter. As we might have guess, he's not a happy camper and would like to speak to the person who filmed this or the family videoed. Sent a message via YouTube to the poster. Hope he or she will contact him.
Frankly, after seeing this and reading the description, I think I'm done with public transportation. They are at my local bus stop, the Greyhound station, the train station, the Metro. And now they are searching AFTER travel? Yep, I'm officially done.
Off to write even more letters to my unresponsive reps...
Frankly, after seeing this and reading the description, I think I'm done with public transportation. They are at my local bus stop, the Greyhound station, the train station, the Metro. And now they are searching AFTER travel? Yep, I'm officially done.
Off to write even more letters to my unresponsive reps...
#63
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Anyone who owns a vehicle with OnStar (or any similar service) already has GPS installed, by default. And you can't just pull a fuse to disconnect it on later models -- it's integrated into more of the electrical system than just the GPS. I'll be keeping my 15-year-old Jeep.
~~ Irish
~~ Irish
Many cell phones also contain a GPS receiver with the same capability. You can do one of three things: either set the GPS receiver to activate only after you dial 911; or, completely disable it; or, do either one of these suggestions AND completely turn off your phone except when making a call.
#64
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Based on the above, I think TSA could/would argue that this is not different than the current situation at ATL. If you arrive on an international flight and ATL is your final destination, after clearing customs/immigration, you still have to clear TSA to exit the airport. This is because to exit the airport from an international arrival, you have to pass through the 'sterile' area.
In the case of the train station, perhaps the case is the same. If part of the station is 'sterile' and the arriving pax has no alternative but to pass through this area, then the pax must pass through screening on departure.
In the case of the train station, perhaps the case is the same. If part of the station is 'sterile' and the arriving pax has no alternative but to pass through this area, then the pax must pass through screening on departure.
#65
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 627
If you're on an Amtrak train at your destination, and you realize that the TSA is "forcing" all arriving passengers to be screened for weapons, contraband, valuables they can steal, and breasts on attractive women...
What would happen if you approached a crewmember on board the train, explained your refusal to put up with that, and asked if you could "extend" your ticket to the next station with a Greyhound station?
A quick check with the Amtrak timetable reveals what you'd have to do:
Southbound on the Silver Star: go to Jacksonville for an extra 2:26
Southbound on the Silver Meteor: go to Jacksonville for an extra 2:39
Southbound on the Palmetto: end of line; you're screwed
Northbound on the Silver Star: go to Columbia for an extra 2:44
Northbound on the Silver Meteor: go to Charleston for an extra 1:51
What would happen if you approached a crewmember on board the train, explained your refusal to put up with that, and asked if you could "extend" your ticket to the next station with a Greyhound station?
A quick check with the Amtrak timetable reveals what you'd have to do:
Southbound on the Silver Star: go to Jacksonville for an extra 2:26
Southbound on the Silver Meteor: go to Jacksonville for an extra 2:39
Southbound on the Palmetto: end of line; you're screwed
Northbound on the Silver Star: go to Columbia for an extra 2:44
Northbound on the Silver Meteor: go to Charleston for an extra 1:51
Last edited by mahohmei; Feb 22, 2011 at 7:39 am
#66
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 821
See, for example --
http://www.universalhub.com/2011/mbt...r-bag-searches
(The TSA is involved with the MBTA bag search operations.)
#67
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 389
Wrong. I already tested that and proved it is not so. If you are trying to depart, they can give you the DY...T? routine. If you have arrived, all you need to do is refuse the search and there is nothing they can do. You most certainly DO have an alternative, and had I been in Savannah, that's the option I would have taken.
#68
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In this particular case, you had a mother with two boys, aged maybe 9 and 11. She really was not in any position to defy the pretense of authority. The situation must have been extremely intimidating and she would have felt she had no choice but to comply. I'm sure her main goal was to get out of that station with her boys.
There's not one TSA employee left with any intelligence and/or empathy. All of those left before November. The ones remaining are either so deluded that they believe they're making a difference in the name of "security," or they have absolutely no problem with groping people to get a paycheck.
#69
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 627
For better or worse, Amtrak is not an option where I live (Tallahassee). We used to have the 3/wk Sunset Limited, but that disappeared with Hurricane Katrina--and never came back.
So you really think the TSA and Savannah police would be able/willing to coordinate with another police department somewhere else to meet you as you get off the train, simply because of a last-minute decision to visit another city?
Maybe we should start a sticky of US train and bus stations where you can expect to find TSA and CBP waiting for you.
So you really think the TSA and Savannah police would be able/willing to coordinate with another police department somewhere else to meet you as you get off the train, simply because of a last-minute decision to visit another city?
Maybe we should start a sticky of US train and bus stations where you can expect to find TSA and CBP waiting for you.
What would happen is that you shouldn't be surprised to be met by TSOs and police as you get off at that station down the line.
See, for example --
http://www.universalhub.com/2011/mbt...r-bag-searches
(The TSA is involved with the MBTA bag search operations.)
See, for example --
http://www.universalhub.com/2011/mbt...r-bag-searches
(The TSA is involved with the MBTA bag search operations.)
#70
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 821
Five years ago, did you think passengers would be frisked getting off an Amtrak train?
#71
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 389
What would happen is that you shouldn't be surprised to be met by TSOs and police as you get off at that station down the line.
See, for example --
http://www.universalhub.com/2011/mbt...r-bag-searches
(The TSA is involved with the MBTA bag search operations.)
See, for example --
http://www.universalhub.com/2011/mbt...r-bag-searches
(The TSA is involved with the MBTA bag search operations.)
Even that would not give the resources to search all travellers but it would insert random government harassment as a possible factor into all travel other than by private vehicle, but as noted above, there already exists sufficient technology to track every vehicle in the nation 24/7/365.
TSA could readily make a Chertoff-style "grant" to On Star, on the requirement that data be shared with TSA. Combine that with a requirement that only On-Star (or similarly tracked) vehicles be allowed to enter the airport perimeter, perhaps with registration on line linked to boarding passes.
Since there has been at least one vehicle attack at an airport (Glasgow) and maybe others that I can't think of right now, the legal and political justification for this already exists, at least if one accepts the idea that fear should run our lives.
#72
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 855
This has been mentioned in other threads, but deserves its own. Here is a video from 2/13/11 showing a mother and two young children being searched AFTER they got off the train at the Savannah train depot. From the YouTube poster's account:
They have no bag X-ray, so while the mother is getting wanded down, and her bra strap felt, and the 9 year-old terrorist and the 11 year year-old terrorist are getting wanded down, and having their arms and legs patted down, two more TSOGOONS are pawing manually through their bags on the table.
I'd sure be curious to hear what the possible justification can be for searching people who are GETTING OFF of a train.
They have no bag X-ray, so while the mother is getting wanded down, and her bra strap felt, and the 9 year-old terrorist and the 11 year year-old terrorist are getting wanded down, and having their arms and legs patted down, two more TSOGOONS are pawing manually through their bags on the table.
I'd sure be curious to hear what the possible justification can be for searching people who are GETTING OFF of a train.
#73
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I note that Bloghdad Bob hasn't even attempted to justify this one.
#74
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TSA sets the pattern. Already Homeland Security has been making grants to regional bus lines based on the condition that they adopt TSA-approved security rules. TSA can't itself cover all buses, trains etc., but soon the time will come when TSA-approved security regimes will be implemented by local governments as a condition of federal Homeland Security funds.
Even that would not give the resources to search all travellers but it would insert random government harassment as a possible factor into all travel other than by private vehicle, but as noted above, there already exists sufficient technology to track every vehicle in the nation 24/7/365.
TSA could readily make a Chertoff-style "grant" to On Star, on the requirement that data be shared with TSA. Combine that with a requirement that only On-Star (or similarly tracked) vehicles be allowed to enter the airport perimeter, perhaps with registration on line linked to boarding passes.
Since there has been at least one vehicle attack at an airport (Glasgow) and maybe others that I can't think of right now, the legal and political justification for this already exists, at least if one accepts the idea that fear should run our lives.
Even that would not give the resources to search all travellers but it would insert random government harassment as a possible factor into all travel other than by private vehicle, but as noted above, there already exists sufficient technology to track every vehicle in the nation 24/7/365.
TSA could readily make a Chertoff-style "grant" to On Star, on the requirement that data be shared with TSA. Combine that with a requirement that only On-Star (or similarly tracked) vehicles be allowed to enter the airport perimeter, perhaps with registration on line linked to boarding passes.
Since there has been at least one vehicle attack at an airport (Glasgow) and maybe others that I can't think of right now, the legal and political justification for this already exists, at least if one accepts the idea that fear should run our lives.
'Freebies' like manpower and $ grants. Greedy local agencies get sucked in, and eventually, as TSA increases its budget, it will expand and displace these short-sighted local agencies, using language like 'streamllined processes', 'common management', 'unified vision', etc.
#75
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