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Old Jan 30, 2011 | 10:28 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by WindOfFreedom
Yet another example of the TSA's total inability to grasp the implications of an idea.
There are two possibilities I see here:

1) The top-level administration is entirely corrupt and knows full well what they're doing, while the lower echelons are too stupid, too ignorant, or too starved for employment to bother caring about what they're really doing.

2) The entire organization is too stupid, too ignorant, or too starved for employment to bother caring about what they're really doing.

Neither is good.
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Old Jan 30, 2011 | 10:39 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by danl08
After hearing "Random and Everywhere" a few times I decided to dig a little. If I was upstairs getting a ticket, could you swab me there - R&E. If I was outside on the curb - R&E. How about in my car - R&E. He then went on to say that as soon as I step onto airport property I was subject to this. I didn't go too far down this path since it was clear that he didn't really care about getting into a discussion of rights and the Constitution. I eventually let them swab me and went on my way, but this R&E thing is going to have to be challenged at some point. They can't "randomly" search people for no reason whatsoever after they identify themselves as "travelers".
Great. So are they going to swab me when I enter my airport hotel room?
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Old Jan 30, 2011 | 10:49 am
  #18  
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Originally Posted by FetePerfection
My bet is this "Random & Everywhere" exercise is DHS/TSA being proactive for once. Their justification is in response to the suicide bomber in Russia, checking everyone regardless...
bolding mine. Except for one problem, they are not checking everyone, just a few at random. This is a waste of resources and doomed to failure.

Hijack and plane crash statistics do not support it, but assume for argument (and TSA who loves to say "There are terryrists everywhere probing the system") that Every Day ONE 9/11 type bad guy tries to board a domestic US flight. There is ONE hijacker in the 2 million folks who will transit a TSA Clerkpoint, where all the sheeple are searched. Now imagine trying to find that ONE Bad Guy outside the Clerkpoint by Random searches.

Next week there will be 100,000 people at the Super Bowl. Imagine twenty Super Bowl stadiums full. Inside is ONE person carrying a billion dollar check which you can keep (The Big Prize) IF you walk up to that person and ask "Do you have my check?", the only restriction is that you can only ask 200 people at Random from those twenty football stadiums full. What are the odds of finding the check?

Now suppose you can play this game forever, however the people in the stadiums change every day so you cannot eliminate those you asked yesterday. Add the variability that some days there might be 10 people with checks but most days there will be none. How many years/decades/centuries are you likely to go and never catch the prize by Random searching of 200 folks a day?

Trying to find a one in a billion long shot by Random Searching is nothing but a huge waste of time. Taxpayer paid time in TSA's case.
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Old Jan 30, 2011 | 12:30 pm
  #19  
 
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Is This Next?

This isn't about TSA specifically but given this "Random and Everywhere" mantra looks like mission creep is on over drive and we are all getting Pistole-whipped even if we don't fly.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/26654216/detail.html

Cops To Get See-Through-Walls Radars? - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville
www.news4jax.com

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- A proposal by U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson to give officers technology used by the military to see through walls is raising eyebrows. Friday, January 28, 2011.
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Old Jan 31, 2011 | 12:17 pm
  #20  
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One more thing I forgot to mention: As I was leaving the airport the night before I noticed that there were 5-7 guys who were there to do some sort of construction during the night. They were wheeling in large carts with large metal beams, tools and toolboxes. They were going around Security and entering through the area where you and I would exit from. No IDs, no one was checking the materials they were bringing in to the secure area, no one looked in their toolboxes....nothing. I stood and watched for a few minutes to see if anyone would bother to check all of this material, but no one did.
I'm glad they checked that I didn't have more than 3 oz of liquid......
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Old Jan 31, 2011 | 12:56 pm
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by danl08
When I walked over I asked him why they were doing this and then he mentioned the V word, voluntary. "Oh, if this is voluntary then I am just going to go through the main security line, bye." That didn't work. He told me to wait and called over a supervisor (3 stripes). I proceeded to ask him what they were doing and why they were doing it. Thats when he started the mantra - "Random and Everywhere". I asked him if I could just go through the main line and they could do whatever procedure they needed to do there - NO. I asked whether doing this here and now would mean I wouldn't have to do this again in the main line - NO. While I was asking questions he threatened to call over police a number of times.
TSA still has no powers of detention AFAIK, you were free to walk away and should have done so. I would also have taken him up on the offer/threat to call the police and I would be real interested in what their response would have been.

Unless everyone entering an airport is swabbed for ETD then this seems to be merely an extension of the SPOT magic pick-out-the-bad-guy charade.
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Old Jan 31, 2011 | 3:16 pm
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by Slide101
This isn't about TSA specifically but given this "Random and Everywhere" mantra looks like mission creep is on over drive and we are all getting Pistole-whipped even if we don't fly.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/26654216/detail.html

Cops To Get See-Through-Walls Radars? - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville
www.news4jax.com

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- A proposal by U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson to give officers technology used by the military to see through walls is raising eyebrows. Friday, January 28, 2011.
The proliferation of these see-thru devices is going to drive down the cost to where anyone can afford them. Do we want some average jack to be able to have a device that sees thru house walls (not to mention clothes...). There goes your privacy. Those things simply must be banned/strictly controlled. Perhaps allowed out of the locker only if there's a warrant and their use strictly controlled....
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Old Jan 31, 2011 | 5:59 pm
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Rest Stops and Truck Stops

Well, highways no longer TSA free. Here's the link: http://bulktransporter.com/fleet/tsa...k-fleets-0131/
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Old Jan 31, 2011 | 6:33 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by BulkTransporter.com
VIPR teams can be extremely effective, serving as a visible presence that is random and unpredictable, says William Arrington with TSA. VIPR teams are an essential part of protecting highway transportation vehicles and other critical infrastructures.

Arrington adds that VIPR teams normally will be accompanied by a uniformed highway enforcement officer. VIPR team members may or may not be in uniform, but they will carry DHS credentials.

At this time, VIPR operations are only conducted at weigh stations and rest areas, according to Arrington. However, truck stop operations are being considered. He says VIPR teams are not conducting inspections at loading locations, delivery sites, and terminals. Carriers will receive no followup or confirmation following a VIPR-involved inspection.
What a load of crap.

TSA appears bent on alienating every segment of American society. Harassing truckers who pull off to rest at rest stops will not go over well. If they try to move into truck stops, they probably will end up be ordered off by the truck stop operators.

I think they'll find resistance from truckers will be much better organized than the resistance from airline travelers.
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Old Jan 31, 2011 | 10:09 pm
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Oh oh, Streets of Philadelphia

This is getting way of out of line: http://www.oldthinkernews.com/?p=24
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Old Jan 31, 2011 | 10:23 pm
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Originally Posted by MikeMpls
What a load of crap.

TSA appears bent on alienating every segment of American society. Harassing truckers who pull off to rest at rest stops will not go over well. If they try to move into truck stops, they probably will end up be ordered off by the truck stop operators.

I think they'll find resistance from truckers will be much better organized than the resistance from airline travelers.
yep. A little problem with the brakes and you'd have 80,000 lbs rolling right over the top of the scanner trucks.
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Old Jan 31, 2011 | 10:30 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by knotyeagle
I find that using my cellphone camera very quickly causes errant screeners to find someone else.
That was done in Albuquerque, perhaps you have seen the threads.

If you got some time on your hands, over $10k, and are prepared to ask for "donations" on FT, I say go for it.

You tell them who's boss.
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Old Jan 31, 2011 | 11:06 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by nachtnebel
yep. A little problem with the brakes and you'd have 80,000 lbs rolling right over the top of the scanner trucks.
I hope so. I'd offer to squish them one clerk at a time w/ my F-250, but your approach would be much more efficient. The clerks will be especially unwelcome if I'm napping in my RV (have to park in the same area as the semis at rest stops) when they come aharassing.

They also will have another little problem, esp. at the rest stops: Most over-the-road trucks contain a small sleeping/living area behind the cabin. The police will need a warrant to enter uninvited.

On top of that, long-haul truckers have to log their driving time, and they're not going to appreciate being harassed during their rest time.

Here in MN the state DNR used to terrorize fishermen in ice houses, but even ice houses (since many containing sleeping & cooking facilities) are now classed as dwellings. Likewise, RV (both motorized & towed) are considered dwellings with regard to 4th amendment issues. I don't see how truckers' sleeping & living quarters will be any different.

Originally Posted by LessO2
That was done in Albuquerque, perhaps you have seen the threads.

If you got some time on your hands, over $10k, and are prepared to ask for "donations" on FT, I say go for it.

You tell them who's boss.

Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Feb 4, 2011 at 9:22 am Reason: merge consecutive posts
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Old Jan 31, 2011 | 11:24 pm
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by MikeMpls
I hope so. I'd offer to squish them one clerk at a time w/ my F-250, but your approach would be much more efficient. The clerks will be especially unwelcome if I'm napping in my RV (have to park in the same area as the semis at rest stops) when they come aharassing.

They also will have another little problem, esp. at the rest stops: Most over-the-road trucks contain a small sleeping/living area behind the cabin. The police will need a warrant to enter uninvited.

On top of that, long-haul truckers have to log their driving time, and they're not going to appreciate being harassed during their rest time.

Here in MN the state DNR used to terrorize fishermen in ice houses, but even ice houses (since many containing sleeping & cooking facilities) are now classed as dwellings. Likewise, RV (both motorized & towed) are considered dwellings with regard to 4th amendment issues. I don't see how truckers' sleeping & living quarters will be any different.
Carriers will receive no followup or confirmation following a VIPR-involved inspection.
Exactly, add to that the tight schedules that most of them work with and adding an hour or two to their work day, delays their break, delays delivery and then the carrier cannot confirm that their driver was actually stopped...I see this ending very badly for someone approaching a truck after the word gets around.
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Old Feb 1, 2011 | 8:14 am
  #30  
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Originally Posted by MikeMpls
What a load of crap.

TSA appears bent on alienating every segment of American society. Harassing truckers who pull off to rest at rest stops will not go over well. If they try to move into truck stops, they probably will end up be ordered off by the truck stop operators.

I think they'll find resistance from truckers will be much better organized than the resistance from airline travelers.
Searching for drugs and illegal substances in trucks. The TSA presence gives legitimacy to a claim of "administrative search". It would not surprise me if someday a site like Wikileaks published DHS papers that showed that much of this is about the war on drugs.
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