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Old Dec 29, 2010 | 7:27 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Lara21
I've got a solution for this problem. Just fix some rooms up at the airport for CBP workers to stay in and when a big snowstorm is coming that is going to cause what happened this time. They can call in some CBP workers to come in before the storm hits and they can stay at the airport. Then CBP workers will already be available there when a flight comes in and the passengers need to get off the plane.
That's why my agency does. They send out a mass email letting people know it's available. Cafeteria's also open 24/7 during those times.

Originally Posted by CitizenTerrorist
It's a completely different story in NYC. First, it may not have been CBP that was having major issues. Second, even if it was mostly a CBP issue you can require everything in the world, and if it is impossible for people to get in and impossible to get to those people to bring them in there is nothing you can do. Firing half your staff because they didn't show up for a storm in which half of the city's ambulances got stuck just isn't feasible. It's different in other areas because it's generally a case of emergency snow routes getting cleared and exempting "required" personnel from snow emergency rules. New York can be impossible in that scenario because it's so heavily dependent on transit and because in the case of this storm, the emergency routes weren't even getting cleared because of abandoned vehicles.

Oh, and if it wasn't CBP but rather PA or MTA or ground crew that screwed it up it will NEVER change. Unions own the NY state legislature and nothing regarding local government employees will change in the near future.

My suggestion is, next time NYC experiences a blizzard, Bloomberg should announce that abandoned vehicles won't be towed but carried by forklift or front-end loader and dumped in the east river. But then again, I'm an evil person
I disagree. I live in the DC area and emergency/essential personnel were expected to be there at my agency. If that meant you didn't go home before the storm hit, well, that's what you signed on for. Bring some clothes and a towel. Hit the cots in the cafeteria party room and the showers are in the gym. The mission doesn't stop for the weather, and neither does the adversary. DC got hit with a much worse blizzard than this last February and the mission still went on.

I know Flies has packed his bag and brought it with him when he knew he might not make it home for a few days. I've worked with other people who have done the same too.

Bottom line: if you don't want to risk staying over and having to work like this, then don't sign up to be emergency/essential personnel.

Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Dec 30, 2010 at 4:04 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
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Old Dec 29, 2010 | 7:48 pm
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by CitizenTerrorist
As much as I would like to lay the blame at the feet of Napolitano, my guess is this is a case of a bad situation that ALL of the service providers at JFK weren't equipped to handle. PA personnel and snow equipment probably weren't able to keep up. Ground crews were more than likely very short staffed. With large portions of NYC mass transit down people probably weren't able to even get in to handle snow/aircraft, etc, ad nauseam. Ultimately it was probably a case of not being to get an airplane off a gate more than anything else.

One would think CBP would be able to design a procedure around not being able to get an aircraft on an international gate but I would be surprised if even they weren't horribly short staffed, in which case it simply may not be feasible to design a procedure to handle.
Sorry; I don't buy it. There should be no such case.

My entire staff is classified "essential" (including me). With nearly 48" of snow last February, 100% of them reported for work. Some elected to stay over (that's what I did - and 8 days straight in the office is not my idea of fun and games), and some found other ways to come and go.

They had a responsibility and they took it seriously.

~~ Irish
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Old Dec 29, 2010 | 8:37 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by Superguy
I disagree. I live in the DC area and emergency/essential personnel were expected to be there at my agency. If that meant you didn't go home before the storm hit, well, that's what you signed on for. Bring some clothes and a towel. Hit the cots in the cafeteria party room and the showers are in the gym. The mission doesn't stop for the weather, and neither does the adversary. DC got hit with a much worse blizzard than this last February and the mission still went on.

I know Flies has packed his bag and brought it with him when he knew he might not make it home for a few days. I've worked with other people who have done the same too.

Bottom line: if you don't want to risk staying over and having to work like this, then don't sign up to be emergency/essential personnel.
Due to years in the fire service, including living at the rescue squad for three days 9 years ago (on continuous recall duty from 11SEP2001 - 14SEP2001), in addition to my military training and my upbringing, I always have a "Go Bag" in the trunk of the car. It is packed with 5 complete days of mid-weight clothing, an extra pair of duty boots and a spare pair of older cross trainers. I have not been on active status with my rescue squad for a while now, due to a service-oriented injury, but the bag is still in the car.
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Old Dec 29, 2010 | 8:39 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by IrishDoesntFlyNow
They had a responsibility and they took it seriously.

~~ Irish
Youse guys obviously have never tried to work with a NYC Union.
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Old Dec 29, 2010 | 9:05 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by Superguy
I disagree. I live in the DC area and emergency/essential personnel were expected to be there at my agency. If that meant you didn't go home before the storm hit, well, that's what you signed on for. Bring some clothes and a towel. Hit the cots in the cafeteria party room and the showers are in the gym. The mission doesn't stop for the weather, and neither does the adversary. DC got hit with a much worse blizzard than this last February and the mission still went on.

I know Flies has packed his bag and brought it with him when he knew he might not make it home for a few days. I've worked with other people who have done the same too.

Bottom line: if you don't want to risk staying over and having to work like this, then don't sign up to be emergency/essential personnel.
You went into it knowing that nothing was going to be available for a while. The federal government closed early on that Friday and were announcing closings at least a day in advance. Everyone expected the worst. Everyone knew transportation was going to be crippled.

Just 4 years ago NYC experienced a record breaking snowfall and while there were snags and delays, the city kept functioning relatively well. LIRR canceled some service, metro did as well, there were delays. But, by and large the city kept operating and essential personnel were able to get to work. Sunday, however, the city shut down. It was an unmitigated disaster with no one able to get anywhere. While the snow wasn't unexpected, the dismal response by the city was.

But, really, that's all beside the point I was trying to make. Even if every CBP officer was an essential employee and even if a number of them failed to show it's still beside the point. The point I was trying to make is that I HIGHLY doubt this is even remotely attributable to CBP. This is coming from someone who thinks border searches are largely ridiculous and who thinks DHS from the top down is a joke of an organization.

I'm saying the delays on the tarmac were most likely a combination of dozens of factors with CBP potentially being one of those factors. It's easy to latch onto a DHS agency because no one (myself included) has any particular love for them. In the final analysis I bet they were low on the list of adverse factors that caused this, though.
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Old Dec 30, 2010 | 3:43 am
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.5.0.138 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)



If a certain percentage of the JFK customs people are designated as "essential personnel," they are REQUIRED to be present for duty. Yes, they sign an agreement. Tough beans - that's what cots and frozen burritos are for.
I work at a major Northern-VA water-production plant, and during the huge "snowpocalypse" in Feb 2010, my 3-man crew and the one working opposite us (12-hour shifts) stayed on site for the duration. These guys in NYC weren't taken by surprise by this storm, or anything.

No, CBP didn't cause all the issues - but they contributed materially to them, due to their failure to properly plan for a known upcoming problem. They deserve to be taken to task for that.
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Old Dec 30, 2010 | 4:12 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by rgfloor
Youse guys obviously have never tried to work with a NYC Union.
Q: How many Teamsters does it take to change a light bulb?

A1: Not my union.

A2: 37. Youse got a problem wit dat?
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Old Dec 30, 2010 | 4:39 am
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by CitizenTerrorist
You went into it knowing that nothing was going to be available for a while. The federal government closed early on that Friday and were announcing closings at least a day in advance. Everyone expected the worst. Everyone knew transportation was going to be crippled.

Just 4 years ago NYC experienced a record breaking snowfall and while there were snags and delays, the city kept functioning relatively well. LIRR canceled some service, metro did as well, there were delays. But, by and large the city kept operating and essential personnel were able to get to work. Sunday, however, the city shut down. It was an unmitigated disaster with no one able to get anywhere. While the snow wasn't unexpected, the dismal response by the city was.
No pass. Providing essential services (including disembarking scheduled aircraft) is what the government is supposed to be doing. When governments decide that the way to respond to a predictable emergency is to announce they are closing early and for the duration, you have New Orleans during Katrina. Nothing, but nothing, excuses that.


Originally Posted by CitizenTerrorist
But, really, that's all beside the point I was trying to make. Even if every CBP officer was an essential employee and even if a number of them failed to show it's still beside the point. The point I was trying to make is that I HIGHLY doubt this is even remotely attributable to CBP. This is coming from someone who thinks border searches are largely ridiculous and who thinks DHS from the top down is a joke of an organization.

I'm saying the delays on the tarmac were most likely a combination of dozens of factors with CBP potentially being one of those factors. It's easy to latch onto a DHS agency because no one (myself included) has any particular love for them. In the final analysis I bet they were low on the list of adverse factors that caused this, though.
CBP was THE cause international passengers got stuck in aircraft. They knew those aircraft were coming in. CBP staff should not have been released until the last passenger was processed. Not that I absolve any other agencies of failure to carry out their respective responsibilities, but processing incoming international flights is CBP's responsibility. If that meant they were ultimately stuck in the airport with the rest of the unwashed masses, too bad.

~~ Irish

Last edited by IrishDoesntFlyNow; Dec 30, 2010 at 5:07 am
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Old Dec 30, 2010 | 5:02 am
  #24  
 
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Here's my usual reply... if you didn't make it to work, you didn't want to make it to work.

Favorite story about snow, and it comes from Florida. Feb, +70F outside, software problem, called the vendor in WA (and no, not them). They always picked up on the first ring (considering their software costs, they better), yet this time, it went to the fifth ring. Commented about this with a laugh, and the reply... they got 24" of snow the night before, and snowmobiles were slower then cars, for everyone coming to work.
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Old Dec 30, 2010 | 8:23 am
  #25  
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Originally Posted by CitizenTerrorist
You went into it knowing that nothing was going to be available for a while. The federal government closed early on that Friday and were announcing closings at least a day in advance. Everyone expected the worst. Everyone knew transportation was going to be crippled.
Even if the federal government "closes", essential personnel are required to be there. It never really "closes" down all the way. NYC had weather reports just like DC did, and DC and the surrounding areas are notoriously under-prepared for anything more than a couple inches at a time. If NYC was unprepared for the snow, well, that's the fault of the city. With what was predicted, I don't see how they couldn't have been ready unless they completely stuck their heads in the sand. However, I have a hard time believing there aren't any sort of contingency plans for things like this.

Things were largely paralyzed here as well. Despite the warning, I couldn't get out of my house for 4 days as that's how long it took the county to get to my street. Then once it was cleared, it snowed just as much AGAIN and it took another couple days to get dug out again.

I wasn't considered essential personnel then. However, I'm likely to be once my internal organization becomes fully operational. When that time comes, I'll have to have a contingency plan for things like this. If that means I have a bag in my car and I might not be getting home, well, that's life.
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Old Dec 30, 2010 | 2:25 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by Caradoc
That's called "contingency planning," and Napolitano and Pistole (and their cronies/underlings) have proven horribly inept at it.
If anything what CPB should have down before the storm was to either bring cots to have the workers sleep or book a block of Hotel Rooms before hand. Though the Port Authority is somewhat at fault as well.
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Old Dec 30, 2010 | 2:34 pm
  #27  
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Everybody did a bad job; CBP is but one of many players. We don't know what portion of the delays CBP is responsible for just yet.
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Old Jan 5, 2011 | 12:32 am
  #28  
 
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My mother was an essential hospital medical employee for over 30 years in Connecticut. On two occasions (the blizzard of '96 and one other that I can't recall), an army vehicle was sent TO OUR HOUSE during the blizzard. Two men in camo fatigues lifted my mother, carried her through the snow, into the van, covered her with blankets, and transported her to the hospital for work.

No lie.
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Old Jan 5, 2011 | 2:58 am
  #29  
 
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I well remember walking to work down the middle of Connecticut Avenue in three or so feet of snow in D.C. in 1996 when I had one of those essential jobs. A few miles down and back.
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