How many of us are in the databases?
Dec 20, 2010 | 5:25 pm
#32
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
Just imagine what Nixon could have done - and what the politicians of the future can do - with the dossiers that DHS is compiling on the American populace. Don't think it won't happen. Just see what J. Edgar Hoover did (COINTELPRO), Joseph McCarthy did, or Nixon's enemies list.
Dec 20, 2010 | 6:28 pm
#33
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denton County, TX
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 737
That brochure posted above is unbelievable. In fact, if I didn't know what was going on in our country right now I would think it was a joke. Here is what I don't understand: many of the items listed on there as suspicious are perfectly normal behaviors that one can and does see all the time:
1. Unusual diving activity: How does your typical boater determine what is "unusual" diving activity? This summer my friends and I drove up to Lake Meredith and rented a small boat for 2 hours (suspicious???). We paid in cash (suspicious???), and drove out a few miles, dropped the anchor, and I jumped off the boat to take a dip. Is this now considered suspicious? I know swimming and diving are not the same thing but my point is, who determines what is suspicious? That is a completely subjective assessment. This is what law enforcement are trained to look for, not everyday citizens!
2. Unsual number of people onboard: Again, this is really specific.
Who decides what an "unusual" number of passengers is on any given vessel at any given time? 
3. My favorite: Note taking, video, sketches, asking questions. These are things ANY tourist is going to do! In fact, many tourists will do ALL of those things. I love to ask questions when I am in new places. How about artists, and videographers, and vacationers that participate in these hobbies?? This is now suspicious activity?
It would be one thing if specially trained LEOs were being tasked with this kind of vigilance because they would hopefully be able to discren between normal tourist behavior and something fishy. But when you start making requests like this of Joe Q. Public you are asking for HUGE problems. American citizens should not be spying on each other. This is NOT appropriate behavior on the part of our government to ask this!
1. Unusual diving activity: How does your typical boater determine what is "unusual" diving activity? This summer my friends and I drove up to Lake Meredith and rented a small boat for 2 hours (suspicious???). We paid in cash (suspicious???), and drove out a few miles, dropped the anchor, and I jumped off the boat to take a dip. Is this now considered suspicious? I know swimming and diving are not the same thing but my point is, who determines what is suspicious? That is a completely subjective assessment. This is what law enforcement are trained to look for, not everyday citizens!
2. Unsual number of people onboard: Again, this is really specific.
Who decides what an "unusual" number of passengers is on any given vessel at any given time? 3. My favorite: Note taking, video, sketches, asking questions. These are things ANY tourist is going to do! In fact, many tourists will do ALL of those things. I love to ask questions when I am in new places. How about artists, and videographers, and vacationers that participate in these hobbies?? This is now suspicious activity?
It would be one thing if specially trained LEOs were being tasked with this kind of vigilance because they would hopefully be able to discren between normal tourist behavior and something fishy. But when you start making requests like this of Joe Q. Public you are asking for HUGE problems. American citizens should not be spying on each other. This is NOT appropriate behavior on the part of our government to ask this!
Dec 20, 2010 | 7:20 pm
#34
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Downers Grove, IL
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, AA Advantage
Posts: 5,983
That brochure posted above is unbelievable. In fact, if I didn't know what was going on in our country right now I would think it was a joke. Here is what I don't understand: many of the items listed on there as suspicious are perfectly normal behaviors that one can and does see all the time:
1. Unusual diving activity: How does your typical boater determine what is "unusual" diving activity? This summer my friends and I drove up to Lake Meredith and rented a small boat for 2 hours (suspicious???). We paid in cash (suspicious???), and drove out a few miles, dropped the anchor, and I jumped off the boat to take a dip. Is this now considered suspicious? I know swimming and diving are not the same thing but my point is, who determines what is suspicious? That is a completely subjective assessment. This is what law enforcement are trained to look for, not everyday citizens!
2. Unsual number of people onboard: Again, this is really specific. Who decides what an "unusual" number of passengers is on any given vessel at any given time?
3. My favorite: Note taking, video, sketches, asking questions. These are things ANY tourist is going to do! In fact, many tourists will do ALL of those things. I love to ask questions when I am in new places. How about artists, and videographers, and vacationers that participate in these hobbies?? This is now suspicious activity?
It would be one thing if specially trained LEOs were being tasked with this kind of vigilance because they would hopefully be able to discren between normal tourist behavior and something fishy. But when you start making requests like this of Joe Q. Public you are asking for HUGE problems. American citizens should not be spying on each other. This is NOT appropriate behavior on the part of our government to ask this!
1. Unusual diving activity: How does your typical boater determine what is "unusual" diving activity? This summer my friends and I drove up to Lake Meredith and rented a small boat for 2 hours (suspicious???). We paid in cash (suspicious???), and drove out a few miles, dropped the anchor, and I jumped off the boat to take a dip. Is this now considered suspicious? I know swimming and diving are not the same thing but my point is, who determines what is suspicious? That is a completely subjective assessment. This is what law enforcement are trained to look for, not everyday citizens!
2. Unsual number of people onboard: Again, this is really specific.
Who decides what an "unusual" number of passengers is on any given vessel at any given time? 3. My favorite: Note taking, video, sketches, asking questions. These are things ANY tourist is going to do! In fact, many tourists will do ALL of those things. I love to ask questions when I am in new places. How about artists, and videographers, and vacationers that participate in these hobbies?? This is now suspicious activity?
It would be one thing if specially trained LEOs were being tasked with this kind of vigilance because they would hopefully be able to discren between normal tourist behavior and something fishy. But when you start making requests like this of Joe Q. Public you are asking for HUGE problems. American citizens should not be spying on each other. This is NOT appropriate behavior on the part of our government to ask this!
Dec 20, 2010 | 8:39 pm
#35
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,728
Dec 20, 2010 | 10:07 pm
#37
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Programs: UA/CO(1K-PLT), AA(PLT), QR, EK, Marriott(PLT), Hilton(DMND)
Posts: 9,538
I'm sure Doc Marten's and green NF jackets (flight jackets) will be coming to Wal-Mart soon enough. Fake Hitler mustaches and those plastic hands that automatically do a nazi salute probably not far behind.
Dec 20, 2010 | 10:18 pm
#38
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: North of DFW
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, TSA Disparager Gold, going for Platnium
Posts: 1,535
TXagogo - if you think thats bad being a diver alone you try being a underwater photographer, that has caused more BS and incidents were i wanted to shove a fin up some idiots butt sideways then i can count. Then if you want to throw in a rebreather, stage and/or deco tanks and a scooter in the mix it gets even worse.
As sad as it is the BS from diving has paled in comparision to what i have dealt with as a photographer. Talk about a lot of nervous nellies scared of there shadow, but yet like to stick there mug in other peoples business.
I have no doubt im in multiple government databases but getting all up in my business or showing up at my residence unannouced (this being Texas after all) could be hazardous to ones health.
As sad as it is the BS from diving has paled in comparision to what i have dealt with as a photographer. Talk about a lot of nervous nellies scared of there shadow, but yet like to stick there mug in other peoples business.
I have no doubt im in multiple government databases but getting all up in my business or showing up at my residence unannouced (this being Texas after all) could be hazardous to ones health.
Dec 20, 2010 | 10:27 pm
#40
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Programs: UA/CO(1K-PLT), AA(PLT), QR, EK, Marriott(PLT), Hilton(DMND)
Posts: 9,538
As soon as I get word on how much additional hot water I can expect to be in for posting it, I will be posting a picture of a DHS squad car that was circling my property earlier this year. I went out to see what the clown wanted and he sped off, so I jumped into my truck and gave chase. I caught up with him, but didn't really have a lucid plan beyond "get him", so I snapped a few photos of the car and went home.
Dec 20, 2010 | 10:51 pm
#41
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denton County, TX
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 737
Dec 20, 2010 | 11:00 pm
#42
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Plat Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 22,647
As soon as I get word on how much additional hot water I can expect to be in for posting it, I will be posting a picture of a DHS squad car that was circling my property earlier this year. I went out to see what the clown wanted and he sped off, so I jumped into my truck and gave chase. I caught up with him, but didn't really have a lucid plan beyond "get him", so I snapped a few photos of the car and went home.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Dec 25, 2010 at 11:15 am Reason: merge consecutive posts
Dec 20, 2010 | 11:13 pm
#43
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Programs: UA/CO(1K-PLT), AA(PLT), QR, EK, Marriott(PLT), Hilton(DMND)
Posts: 9,538
) so I would say, pretty detailed. FOIA information here:
http://www.justice.gov/oip/04_3.html
Dec 21, 2010 | 1:53 am
#44
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
I've sat across the desk from an agent holding a manila file filled with Flyertalk printouts (JTTF doesn't know how to use search either ) so I would say, pretty detailed.
FOIA information here:
http://www.justice.gov/oip/04_3.html
) so I would say, pretty detailed. FOIA information here:
http://www.justice.gov/oip/04_3.html
Dec 21, 2010 | 7:34 am
#45
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,972
