German Article about NOS
Dec 12, 2010 | 2:59 pm
#1
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German Article about NOS
Hi all together,
i was reading alot about the TSA here. I'm not from the US but i will spend three years there in the near future. So i currently suck up all information i can get. Furthermore i'm highly interested in everything close to aviation.
I read an article in our newspapers about the NOS in Hamburg, Germany.
It is in German, and i'll try my best to translate it as good as i can.
Here is the German Version of it (just if someone can read german and correct me if i translated anything wrong.
That is interesting. If the TSA have the same amount of false positives. Does that mean that about 75% will get groped after heading through the scanners?
How can that be right? i guess there are tons of threads here arguing about it, so i just wanted to share the expirience of other countries using their MMW-NOS.
Have a good night, or day, or evening, where ever you all are
Alex
i was reading alot about the TSA here. I'm not from the US but i will spend three years there in the near future. So i currently suck up all information i can get. Furthermore i'm highly interested in everything close to aviation.
I read an article in our newspapers about the NOS in Hamburg, Germany.
It is in German, and i'll try my best to translate it as good as i can.
"Nudescanners are a total failure"
Since last September the NOS are in testing at the Hamburg Airport.
Highranked Securityofficers call those a total failure.
Currently the error ratio is about 75% (!). The NOS reacts to harmles materials such as Cardboard or crinkles. The NOS are working like a FLIR using Milimeterwaves to see through clothings making Objetcs on the skin (or under the clothes) visible.
Softwareupdate should minimize errors.
The US-Manufacturer L-3 Communications will update the software on those NOS within end of this year to minimize errors.
The German minister of inner affairs Thomas de Maiziere (CDU) inidicates at the early start of this Test in September, that the NOS are giving too much false positives to be effective. The NOS are still in a testphase. If they will succeed and stay on German Airports is still not decided.
Since last September the NOS are in testing at the Hamburg Airport.
Highranked Securityofficers call those a total failure.
Currently the error ratio is about 75% (!). The NOS reacts to harmles materials such as Cardboard or crinkles. The NOS are working like a FLIR using Milimeterwaves to see through clothings making Objetcs on the skin (or under the clothes) visible.
Softwareupdate should minimize errors.
The US-Manufacturer L-3 Communications will update the software on those NOS within end of this year to minimize errors.
The German minister of inner affairs Thomas de Maiziere (CDU) inidicates at the early start of this Test in September, that the NOS are giving too much false positives to be effective. The NOS are still in a testphase. If they will succeed and stay on German Airports is still not decided.
Bericht: „Nacktscanner ein Totalausfall“
Die Technik der umstrittenen Krperscanner, die seit Ende September testweise am Flughafen Hamburg eingesetzt werden, sind laut Aussagen eines hochrangigen Sicherheitsbeamten „ein totaler Ausfall“. Das berichtete das deutsche Nachrichtenmagazin „Focus“.
Derzeit liege die Fehlerquote laut Bericht bei 75 Prozent, die Gerte reagierten etwa auf harmlose Materialien wie Karton und Falten in der Kleidung. Krperscanner funktionieren hnlich wie eine Wrmebildkamera. Sie tasten Passagiere mit Millimeterwellen ab und machen Gegenstnde auf der Haut oder unter der Kleidung sichtbar.
Softwareupdate soll Fehlerquote senken
Der US-Hersteller L-3 Communications soll die Gerte nun noch vor Jahresende mit einem Softwareupdate aufrsten, das die Fehlerquote senken soll.
Der deutsche Innenminister Thomas de Maiziere (CDU) hatte bereits bei der Erffnung des Testbetriebs Ende September darauf hingewiesen, dass die Scanner noch „zu viele Fehlalarme“ produzierten. Ob die neuen Gerte nach dem Probelauf an deutschen Flughfen eingesetzt werden, lie er deshalb ausdrcklich offen.
Die Technik der umstrittenen Krperscanner, die seit Ende September testweise am Flughafen Hamburg eingesetzt werden, sind laut Aussagen eines hochrangigen Sicherheitsbeamten „ein totaler Ausfall“. Das berichtete das deutsche Nachrichtenmagazin „Focus“.
Derzeit liege die Fehlerquote laut Bericht bei 75 Prozent, die Gerte reagierten etwa auf harmlose Materialien wie Karton und Falten in der Kleidung. Krperscanner funktionieren hnlich wie eine Wrmebildkamera. Sie tasten Passagiere mit Millimeterwellen ab und machen Gegenstnde auf der Haut oder unter der Kleidung sichtbar.
Softwareupdate soll Fehlerquote senken
Der US-Hersteller L-3 Communications soll die Gerte nun noch vor Jahresende mit einem Softwareupdate aufrsten, das die Fehlerquote senken soll.
Der deutsche Innenminister Thomas de Maiziere (CDU) hatte bereits bei der Erffnung des Testbetriebs Ende September darauf hingewiesen, dass die Scanner noch „zu viele Fehlalarme“ produzierten. Ob die neuen Gerte nach dem Probelauf an deutschen Flughfen eingesetzt werden, lie er deshalb ausdrcklich offen.
How can that be right? i guess there are tons of threads here arguing about it, so i just wanted to share the expirience of other countries using their MMW-NOS.
Have a good night, or day, or evening, where ever you all are
Alex
Dec 12, 2010 | 3:34 pm
#3
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False positives aren't zero, yet they're also high enough to make people wonder why they were irradiated and didn't just go for the pat-down to being with. I'm not aware of any official number for AIT.
The TSA is working on ATR (Automatic Thread Recognition?), to take the human operator out of the process, yet they've tndicated way too many false-positives (more then even with the operator). Their goal is to get the number down to where they can get the operator out of the process, and pat-down only the error-location.
The TSA is working on ATR (Automatic Thread Recognition?), to take the human operator out of the process, yet they've tndicated way too many false-positives (more then even with the operator). Their goal is to get the number down to where they can get the operator out of the process, and pat-down only the error-location.
Dec 12, 2010 | 6:18 pm
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Welcome to FT, Alex. Thanks for an interesting perspective from Germany.
I don't really read German, but it appears the newspaper called them "Nudescanner" (Nacktscanner) and "body scanner" (Krperscanner). Do you know if the German government or airport officials use these terms as well?
In the US, TSA uses neutral terms like "Advanced Imaging Technology" instead to try to distract people from the "nude" or "body" aspect.
I don't really read German, but it appears the newspaper called them "Nudescanner" (Nacktscanner) and "body scanner" (Krperscanner). Do you know if the German government or airport officials use these terms as well?
In the US, TSA uses neutral terms like "Advanced Imaging Technology" instead to try to distract people from the "nude" or "body" aspect.
Dec 12, 2010 | 6:40 pm
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False positives aren't zero, yet they're also high enough to make people wonder why they were irradiated and didn't just go for the pat-down to being with. I'm not aware of any official number for AIT.
The TSA is working on ATR (Automatic Thread Recognition?), to take the human operator out of the process, yet they've tndicated way too many false-positives (more then even with the operator). Their goal is to get the number down to where they can get the operator out of the process, and pat-down only the error-location.
The TSA is working on ATR (Automatic Thread Recognition?), to take the human operator out of the process, yet they've tndicated way too many false-positives (more then even with the operator). Their goal is to get the number down to where they can get the operator out of the process, and pat-down only the error-location.
Welcome to FT, Alex. Thanks for an interesting perspective from Germany.
I don't really read German, but it appears the newspaper called them "Nudescanner" (Nacktscanner) and "body scanner" (Krperscanner). Do you know if the German government or airport officials use these terms as well?
In the US, TSA uses neutral terms like "Advanced Imaging Technology" instead to try to distract people from the "nude" or "body" aspect.
I don't really read German, but it appears the newspaper called them "Nudescanner" (Nacktscanner) and "body scanner" (Krperscanner). Do you know if the German government or airport officials use these terms as well?
In the US, TSA uses neutral terms like "Advanced Imaging Technology" instead to try to distract people from the "nude" or "body" aspect.
No longer do we have Whole Body Imager, but Advance Imagine Technology
Dec 12, 2010 | 7:07 pm
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)
Dec 12, 2010 | 7:20 pm
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Backscanner X-ray vs. Terahz imaging
While I am not an expert in this field, I think we may be confusing two different technologies. One is an X-ray machine that images using backscatter of the X-rays. The other employs deep infrared (terahz), which is submillimeter wavelength radiation. The former uses ionizing radiation which has, indeed, the possibility to do damage to tissue. Deep infrared radiation is not dangerous in the same way. It is my guess that the X-ray machine is what the TSA is using in the majority of cases, and I don't like that. It is more properly described as the nude-o-scope. While I admit to being somewhat lazy in looking all of this stuff up, maybe someone with real expertise in the field could enlighten us as to what is being used and where, and how we can recognize which is which in our local airport...
Dec 12, 2010 | 7:26 pm
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While I am not an expert in this field, I think we may be confusing two different technologies. One is an X-ray machine that images using backscatter of the X-rays. The other employs deep infrared (terahz), which is submillimeter wavelength radiation. The former uses ionizing radiation which has, indeed, the possibility to do damage to tissue. Deep infrared radiation is not dangerous in the same way. It is my guess that the X-ray machine is what the TSA is using in the majority of cases, and I don't like that. It is more properly described as the nude-o-scope. While I admit to being somewhat lazy in looking all of this stuff up, maybe someone with real expertise in the field could enlighten us as to what is being used and where, and how we can recognize which is which in our local airport...
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...y-scanner.html
Dec 12, 2010 | 7:57 pm
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<<<------- I'm a Radio Engineer.
Yes, there are two technologies, and yes, a lot of people are confused.
One is millimeter-wave (MMW) radio frequency. The frequency band (according to papers on the FCC website from the manufacturer) is 24.5 - 30 GHz; the wavelength is therefore about 10 mm (0.4"). Higher frequency than cell phones, but well below Terahertz and infrared. (There were some prototype systems at ~100 GHz (still not quite THz) that I've referred to in earlier posts.)
The other is x-ray (also called backscatter x-ray, or sometimes just backscatter or BSKX). So yes, ionizing radiation.
You can tell what's where from the link Friendly Skies posted (which Friendly Skies maintains^^). And you can tell them apart at the airport by looking at the type of machine. The MMW is a round booth with glass doors, while the x-ray is two large rectangular boxes that thevictim suspected Bad Guy stands between.
One is millimeter-wave (MMW) radio frequency. The frequency band (according to papers on the FCC website from the manufacturer) is 24.5 - 30 GHz; the wavelength is therefore about 10 mm (0.4"). Higher frequency than cell phones, but well below Terahertz and infrared. (There were some prototype systems at ~100 GHz (still not quite THz) that I've referred to in earlier posts.)
The other is x-ray (also called backscatter x-ray, or sometimes just backscatter or BSKX). So yes, ionizing radiation.
You can tell what's where from the link Friendly Skies posted (which Friendly Skies maintains^^). And you can tell them apart at the airport by looking at the type of machine. The MMW is a round booth with glass doors, while the x-ray is two large rectangular boxes that the
Dec 13, 2010 | 7:13 am
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I suspect ATR is completely doable, yet not sure about it, if using the current scanning technology. If you took away all of the safety protections, used a couple of different scanning technologies at once, and threw the time at the software, I'm sure it could be done. Just doing it with humans, in a single bandwidth, that seems to present some sisues.
Dec 13, 2010 | 6:46 pm
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I suspect ATR is completely doable, yet not sure about it, if using the current scanning technology. If you took away all of the safety protections, used a couple of different scanning technologies at once, and threw the time at the software, I'm sure it could be done. Just doing it with humans, in a single bandwidth, that seems to present some sisues.
There are a few plausible reasons TSA is not implementing ATR now. First, it would mean removing the pervy booths in the back and getting rid of the extra screeners, just as they're in the middle of installing pervy booths and hiring extra screeners. Second, they don't seem to trust ATR to find everything, although judging from the reports of patdowns after the NoS, they also don't trust NoS Mk 1 to find everything either. Third, those who would profit by selling ATR upgrades don't seem to have made the right "campaign contributions" yet.
Dec 13, 2010 | 6:53 pm
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Hello Alex. Here is a similar article I posted some time ago about the teething pains of the test and the issue with 'pleats' or multiple layers of clothing causing false data.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...r-germany.html
Since that time the results are only worse.
The first is more the slang or common term, the second the more official term. But the as to the term Nacktscanner many major news sources such as Der Spiegel, Taggesschau as two examples use it.
Der Ganzkrperscanner Rapiscan Secure 1000 is essentially the Whole Body Scanner Rapiscan Secure 1000 which is the WBI in shortform in English.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...r-germany.html
Since that time the results are only worse.
Welcome to FT, Alex. Thanks for an interesting perspective from Germany.
I don't really read German, but it appears the newspaper called them "Nudescanner" (Nacktscanner) and "body scanner" (Krperscanner). Do you know if the German government or airport officials use these terms as well?
I don't really read German, but it appears the newspaper called them "Nudescanner" (Nacktscanner) and "body scanner" (Krperscanner). Do you know if the German government or airport officials use these terms as well?
Der Ganzkrperscanner Rapiscan Secure 1000 is essentially the Whole Body Scanner Rapiscan Secure 1000 which is the WBI in shortform in English.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Dec 17, 2010 at 2:42 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
Dec 13, 2010 | 7:14 pm
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The first is more the slang or common term, the second the more official term. But the as to the term Nacktscanner many major news sources such as Der Spiegel, Taggesschau as two examples use it.
Der Ganzkrperscanner Rapiscan Secure 1000 is essentially the Whole Body Scanner Rapiscan Secure 1000 which is the WBI in shortform in English.
Der Ganzkrperscanner Rapiscan Secure 1000 is essentially the Whole Body Scanner Rapiscan Secure 1000 which is the WBI in shortform in English.
I figure they understand that the X-ray types are not fully characterized and may be dangerous, certainly more dangerous than terrorists. I understand that Germany, in particular, x-ray scanning is illegal under their laws.
Rapiscan is developing a "wave scan", for Mr Chertoff to sell to Washington after the backscatters are sent to keep company with the puffers.....
Dec 14, 2010 | 10:05 am
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Probably for reasons similar to billions spent on unwanted weapons systems, on Halliburton, on Blackwater. On anything shoved at the government with the help of well-connected lobbyists. The "justification" is a fig leaf.
Dec 14, 2010 | 10:42 am
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Pistole said he hopes the agency can implement full-body scanners that show a less graphic image within a year or two.
Might as well be the 12th of Never, 31st of February, etc.